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Post by wh on Jul 5, 2010 16:29:30 GMT -5
Now that next year's rosters are pretty well established, here's my prediction for pre-conference team rankings:
1. Butler
2. Detroit
3. Cleveland State
4. Milwaukee
5. Wright State
6. Green Bay
7. Valpo
8. Loyola
9. UIC
10. Youngstown State
Of course, that's not where we will finish, but that's about where we will be predicted to finish.
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Post by wh on Jul 5, 2010 16:32:22 GMT -5
I forgot another important pre-season prediction - Matt Howard will be named 1st team all conference center.
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Post by staxawax on Jul 5, 2010 18:22:02 GMT -5
I'm not sure how to predict predictions? All I know is Butler will breeze through the regular season and Shelvin Mack will be a 1st team selection. Nored is a dark-horse....... but definitely 1st team defense. I'm on a wait and see for Howard as he going to have to prove it to me.
Hopkins and Marshall BOTH have a shot at the newcomer award for Butler.
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Post by vu72 on Jul 5, 2010 21:24:37 GMT -5
I'm not sure how to predict predictions? All I know is Butler will breeze through the regular season and Shelvin Mack will be a 1st team selection. Nored is a dark-horse....... but definitely 1st team defense. I'm on a wait and see for Howard as he going to have to prove it to me. Hopkins and Marshall BOTH have a shot at the newcomer award for Butler. I think you forgot that hayward won't be part of the Butler team. There will be no "breezing" for Butler or anybody else. Valpo, Detroit, CSU, WSU and others will all be very good. Butler's style, of not being able to blow anybody out, will be a problem without Hayward. Look, I know Butler beat us without Hayward but you are relying on a couple of freshman and everybody can't be Howard and Hayward. Not even sure I'd predict Butler to finish first. But, wh's question was who the "experts" will pick and no doubt it will be Butler. |
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Post by vu72 on Jul 5, 2010 21:45:28 GMT -5
Let me follow up on my last post. Last year Butler beat Detroit by 2 and 5 points. They beat Valpo by 5, CSU and Wisc Milw by 9 and mighty Loyola by 1. Now, remove Hayward and Willie Veasley from the equation and add some talented freshmen. Sure sounds like breezing to me.
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Post by dylanrocks on Jul 5, 2010 22:41:03 GMT -5
Butler is the national runner-up, so of course I would predict them to finish first ... even without the league's best player.
But the Bulldogs, as good as they were, didn't "breeze" through the league last season, winning their 20 league games by an average of 13.2 points per game. That, of course, included some lopsided victories over Youngstown State, UIC (twice), Green Bay (twice) and Wright State.
And could we please all agree to call the team in Brewtown Milwaukee. It really does roll right off the tongue ... and it improves the league's perception in the process. So it's Green Bay, UIC (as there's already a University of Chicago) and Milwaukee.
By the way, I don't think anyone in their right mind is going to be predicting Valpo for seventh after the two teams you've picked immediately ahead of them lost their coaches. I can't see the Crusaders being officially chosen any lower than fifth.
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Post by zvillehaze on Jul 6, 2010 9:38:25 GMT -5
Not even sure I'd predict Butler to finish first. But, wh's question was who the "experts" will pick and no doubt it will be Butler. Interesting ... what team (or teams) do you think will finish ahead of Butler next year? Since you stated earlier this year that Johnson was better than Howard, Wood was better than Mack and that Valpo's bench was better than Butler's, I'm assuming you think this will be the year that Valpo not only secures a top 5 seed, but climbs all the way to the top. Correct? I'm the first to admit that Butler had several close games last year, but at the end of the day, they didn't lose any league games, won the league by an absurd margin of 6 games and basically had things wrapped up by the end of January. I'm not sure how to describe that without offending people, but it wasn't the most competitive race I've ever seen. |
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Post by crusaderdad on Jul 6, 2010 9:50:35 GMT -5
I'm voting for BWOOD; Pre-season Player of the Year and 1st Team All-Conference. JUST SAYIN...lol
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Post by fwalum on Jul 6, 2010 10:44:32 GMT -5
Parity in the Horizon League has improved greatly in the off season. Butler wins because this game is as much mental as it is physical. They do not "breeze" though the season and will have at least three games in the L column at the end of the year. Detroit will be extremely dangerous but the mental aspects of consistency could prove to be elusive for them. CSU could prove to be the most consistent of the challengers. Valpo should be better just because of improved chemistry and maturity, but they still lack the key ingredient of a seasoned big man in the 5 spot. Expectations for the HL are much higher, this is not last years league.
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Post by vu72 on Jul 6, 2010 10:45:51 GMT -5
Not even sure I'd predict Butler to finish first. But, wh's question was who the "experts" will pick and no doubt it will be Butler. Interesting ... what team (or teams) do you think will finish ahead of Butler next year? Since you stated earlier this year that Johnson was better than Howard, Wood was better than Mack and that Valpo's bench was better than Butler's, I'm assuming you think this will be the year that Valpo not only secures a top 5 seed, but climbs all the way to the top. Correct? I'm the first to admit that Butler had several close games last year, but at the end of the day, they didn't lose any league games, won the league by an absurd margin of 6 games and basically had things wrapped up by the end of January. I'm not sure how to describe that without offending people, but it wasn't the most competitive race I've ever seen. I believe my comments were to the effect that Howard and Mack weren't any better than Johnson and Wood. And yes, I did think Valpo's bench was deeper. My point was that the real difference maker for Butler was Hayward. Now I will grant you one thing--nobody plays better defense, and as a complete unit, than Butler. That is why you made it to the championship game. So, is this Valpo's year? I think so. I would pick Valpo third with all conference games up for grabs. If Vucic has an impact, and I'm hearing very good things, and, if we get some help up front from the Dutch kid or a much improved Witt, then there is no reason why Valpo couldn't contend for the title. As for who I might pick ahead of Butler--Detroit. Look, Butler just beat them by a few points in both games. Hayward is gone and MacCallum is in. Detroit will be a load, no doubt. |
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Post by dylanrocks on Jul 6, 2010 11:11:22 GMT -5
Maybe I'm parsing words and I certainly do agree with the assertions above that Butler not only had a physical but also a dintinct mental advantage over its league opponents.
But that was last year and I do believe the conference continues to get more formidable. So I'd hesitate to project that Butler will win the league again in similar fashion.
Having said all that, I still think that when you couple their returnees with no worse than the league's third-best recruiting class, the Bulldogs remain the clear-cut favorite for their fourth straight regular-season and third straight conference tournament titles.
I won't debate that they're the class of the league.
Here's my hunch for preseason predictions:
1, Butler
2, Cleveland State
3, Detroit
4, Milwaukee
5, Valpo
6, Wright State
7, Green Bay
8, UIC
9, Loyola
10, Youngstown State
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Post by blackpantheruwm on Jul 6, 2010 14:44:36 GMT -5
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Post by wh on Jul 6, 2010 17:22:34 GMT -5
You put Milwaukee a little higher than I would have, but you make a pretty compelling argument. Overall, a well thought out, extremely well articulated analysis from top to bottom (or should I say from bottom to top)? 
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Post by staxawax on Jul 6, 2010 19:53:28 GMT -5
vu72 remains delusional. Now that I have that out of the way........ Very nice predictions panther. I would add 2 names to what might effect the standings. The guard that is on Valpo's roster that can step up is Matt Kenney. He can jump out of the gym, hit the 3 and find the open man. The other name is Chrishawn Hopkins, the little known "other" recruit for Butler. He may end up getting as much or more playing time as Marshall. |
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Post by zvillehaze on Jul 6, 2010 20:05:44 GMT -5
Interesting ... what team (or teams) do you think will finish ahead of Butler next year? Since you stated earlier this year that Johnson was better than Howard, Wood was better than Mack and that Valpo's bench was better than Butler's, I'm assuming you think this will be the year that Valpo not only secures a top 5 seed, but climbs all the way to the top. Correct? I'm the first to admit that Butler had several close games last year, but at the end of the day, they didn't lose any league games, won the league by an absurd margin of 6 games and basically had things wrapped up by the end of January. I'm not sure how to describe that without offending people, but it wasn't the most competitive race I've ever seen. I believe my comments were to the effect that Howard and Mack weren't any better than Johnson and Wood. And yes, I did think Valpo's bench was deeper. My point was that the real difference maker for Butler was Hayward. Now I will grant you one thing--nobody plays better defense, and as a complete unit, than Butler. That is why you made it to the championship game. So, is this Valpo's year? I think so. I would pick Valpo third with all conference games up for grabs. If Vucic has an impact, and I'm hearing very good things, and, if we get some help up front from the Dutch kid or a much improved Witt, then there is no reason why Valpo couldn't contend for the title. As for who I might pick ahead of Butler--Detroit. Look, Butler just beat them by a few points in both games. Hayward is gone and MacCallum is in. Detroit will be a load, no doubt. The exact comment was " How does the rest of the starting lineup match up against Valpo? Howard better than Johnson? No way. Mack better than Wood? No way. Our bench against Butler's? Not even close." As I stated then, you may not like Howard, Mack or the bench guys much, but I'm happy to have them on my team. You're spot on with your comment on defense. That was clearly Valpo's weakness last year ... IMO, the key to Valpo's success will be on that side of the ball. The challenge Homer has is that he's counting heavily on guys who either have defensive limitations or who don't seem interested in playing defense. |
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