|
Post by vu72 on Aug 6, 2008 18:19:25 GMT -5
OK, a question then: why is Calvin, a Dutch-reformed school, doing going in to a Lutheran school located a couple of hours away from Ft. Wayne, and walking out of there with kids that VU ought to be getting? What's going on here, and do the admissions people know about this? If not, why not? And if so, then what are they going to do about it? I don't see us going in to Grand Rapids and walking out with a lot of Dutch reformed kids. Am I wrong about this? I will repeat my earlier observation: the area surrouding VU is unattractive at best (and downright seedy at worst), so, to my way of thinking, VU ought to make sure its campus is absolutely perfect so that visitors can overcome the negative reaction they get when seeing the surrouding neighborhood. I personally know of two kids, whose parents could pay the full tuition price and then some, who were so turned off the the neighborhood they wanted to leave and go home right then and there. (They wound up at Butler and Luther.) Is anyone on this board able to forward this entire thread to admissions/the new president/a board member? They should know about the thoughts we have shared. The fact that Calvin, a very religious and conservative place, is getting kids that VU should be getting is worrisome. I think it's part of a trend ... there are a number of conservative students out there that VU is missing out on. They are going to places like Calvin, or Wheaton, or Oral Roberts (yes, even Oral Roberts, with all its financial problems). Paul The answer in part to your question about why these other students are going to say, Calvin, is that many schools recruit at places other then there main student sources, One could just as well ask: Why are 20% of Valpo's students Catholic? Why aren't they going to Notre Dame? Or St. Joes? Who knows for sure. As a member of the VAN I have several times been to catholic schools to recruit at college fairs. Religion basicly never comes up. At Lutheran fairs it does come up from time to time and that generally isn't an issue as we have clergy from both the ELCA and Missouri Synod.
|
|
|
Post by crusaderguy08 on Aug 6, 2008 19:46:05 GMT -5
OK, a question then: why is Calvin, a Dutch-reformed school, doing going in to a Lutheran school located a couple of hours away from Ft. Wayne, and walking out of there with kids that VU ought to be getting? What's going on here, and do the admissions people know about this? If not, why not? And if so, then what are they going to do about it? I don't see us going in to Grand Rapids and walking out with a lot of Dutch reformed kids. Am I wrong about this? I am a Dutch Reformed kid that just graduated, although I am not from Grand Rapids. If it weren't for the DI athletics at Valpo, I would have gone elsewhere. In my experience, many students have a strong preference of either going to a religiously affiliated school or not. I do not think many care what that affiliations is necessarily. My background is a good illustration of that. I went to a public high school in Illinois, but was looking for a religiously affiliated university close to home that had DI athletics. I visited Wheaton first, then Valpo and made up my mind on my way home from the Valpo visit. Valpo is the only place I even applied. I just graduated and now work in the athletic department at a Jesuit institution. In the last six years I have gone from a public high school, to a Lutheran University, to working at a Jesuit one. I have enjoyed both stops at the religiously affiliated institutions but also liked the diversity I experienced in high school. I really think it is impossible to guess where a kid will choose to attend college based on their religious upbringing or high school experience.
|
|
|
Post by okinawatyphoon on Aug 7, 2008 12:01:32 GMT -5
Looking at the union webcam, it appears that they're laying down the sod today!!
|
|
|
Post by unionguy on Aug 7, 2008 15:45:37 GMT -5
Yes, they are laying sod and should be finished by tomorrow. It is a very interesting process. The sod comes in 48" and they have a machine that rolls it out like carpet. It is a very efficient process. By the weekend the entire outside will be landscaped.
|
|
TD
Recruit
Posts: 42
|
Post by TD on Aug 7, 2008 22:33:27 GMT -5
The actual title of the building will be the Harre Union. The name will appear in a number of places on the exterior and near the roof line. The name will also occur on directional signs around the building. There will be no lack of name recognition on the exterior. There will also be a sand blasted seal with the the name at the main entrance into the Atrium Lobby (south entrance). I will be glad to answer any other questions anyone might have. A little size comparison, we had a group visiting from the University of Kentucky, enrollment 27,000 and their Union is 212,000. Our Union will be 202,000. We are in a league with many larger schools that smaller Unions than we do. Bowling Green 165,000. Everyone should be very proud of what VU has accomplished in building the new Union. It will be a great recruiting and retention tool. I think the name is a perfect fit. "The Big Harre Union." :-)
|
|
TD
Recruit
Posts: 42
|
Post by TD on Aug 7, 2008 22:44:24 GMT -5
As a member of the VAN I have several times been to catholic schools to recruit at college fairs. Religion basically never comes up. At Lutheran fairs it does come up from time to time and that generally isn't an issue as we have clergy from both the ELCA and Missouri Synod. Maybe I'm wrong but for a lot of the parents at CLHS in Ft Wayne the fact that Valpo is considered fairly liberal in Lutheran circles and does have ELCA pastors is a turn off for many conservative LCMS parents. That is also what attracts some of those students to Calvin in GR. Is that overstated, fwalum?
|
|
|
Post by okinawatyphoon on Aug 8, 2008 11:33:13 GMT -5
I received a mailing from Valpo today, with some information on the North Loop Road project (which was supposed to start after commencement).
"In mid-August, the North Loop Road project will begin with sidewalks and lighting going in from the southeast corner of Gellersen Hall to Domke Center. Work will also begin in mid to late August on the storm water detention pond near Wehrenberg Hall."
Hopefully this makes the area near the residence halls more attractive.
|
|
|
Post by fwalum on Aug 8, 2008 23:28:20 GMT -5
As a member of the VAN I have several times been to catholic schools to recruit at college fairs. Religion basically never comes up. At Lutheran fairs it does come up from time to time and that generally isn't an issue as we have clergy from both the ELCA and Missouri Synod. Maybe I'm wrong but for a lot of the parents at CLHS in Ft Wayne the fact that Valpo is considered fairly liberal in Lutheran circles and does have ELCA pastors is a turn off for many conservative LCMS parents. That is also what attracts some of those students to Calvin in GR. Is that overstated, fwalum? That is the complaint that I hear a lot. I was really surprised when my friend Arthur A. Just, Jr., M.Div., S.T.M., Ph.D. Professor of Exegetical Theology and former Dean of the Chapel at CTSFW allowed his daughter Abigail to go to VU. She had a very good experience. They don't get much more conservative then Art. Some of these people that complain about VU have kids that then end up going to a liberal state school and they don't seem to have any problem with those liberal institutions. Just kind of honks me off.
|
|
|
Post by 78crusader on Aug 10, 2008 19:07:31 GMT -5
Fwalum-- Can you describe for me what, exactly, is VU's current affiliation (if any) with the LCMS and other synods? I hesitate to ask such a basic question, but I'm not sure anymore. What overall is VU's reputation with the LCMS compared with, say, 10-15 years ago? I don't have a problem with conservative Christians sending their kids to "liberal" state schools (and they don't get much more liberal than the state school where I live, the University of Iowa) for this simple reason: parents, and their kids, know exactly what they're getting when they go to such places. The problem for VU, it seems to me, is some people aren't really sure what they are getting -- liberal teaching or conservative doctrine? I think VU has made a mistake if it has backed away from its traditional relationship with the LCMS. Reason: if VU continued its LCMS relationship, it would get both LCMS kids plus other Lutheran kids. Now, though, VU still might get the other Lutheran kids, but not the LCMS kids. So what have we gained? Nothing. And what have we lost? A traditional relationship with the LCMS, one that served VU well for many, many years. I for one enjoyed showing up on campus in 1974 with 900 other kids, many if not most of whom had similar LCMS upbringings that I had. I live in Iowa and it's been 30 years since I graduated so I don't know if any of this is accurate. What are your thoughts? Paul
|
|
|
Post by okinawatyphoon on Aug 10, 2008 19:36:04 GMT -5
Paul, you are right about the confusion. On one of my tours, I had an older gentleman try to tell me that Valpo is officially affiliated with the LCMS, but I told him that we are officially "independent Lutheran." The idea of Valpo being a "liberal Christian school" is entirely correct, and I know because my sisters went to two very strict conservative Christian schools. My parents, even after visiting, didn't really understand if Valpo was really "Christian" in their eyes or not, and it's a difficult message to convey while giving tours to prospective students. Are we a conservative school? I would say yes. But are we conservative as far as Christian schools go? I would say no, but that's just me. While this is off topic from the title of the thread, I think it's a great conversation. The new president really has to decide where this school is going. It's a turning point, I think.
|
|
|
Post by agibson on Aug 11, 2008 14:20:05 GMT -5
I've been at Valpo, or had family at Valpo, for many of the years since '96. So, a relatively recent perspective.
I'd say that in the spectrum of Christianity Valpo's somewhere in the middle. Probably somewhere on the left side of the LCMS. Probably somewhere on the right side of the ELCA. Of course there's a lot of diversity at Valpo, and it depends on the issue you're talking about, etc. In my opinion, Valpo sits at sort of an interesting juncture between the ELCA and LCMS. And, an interesting juncture between conservative and liberal perspectives on a variety of issues.
In the late 90's a woman presided over communion at Valpo for the first time. Women began to regularly preach and preside at the Chapel (selected Sundays, usually). Valpo's currently looking to hire an ordained woman from the ELCA as an additional campus chaplain (the female part and the non-LCMS part will both be firsts).
Much of Valpo's national draw seems to be based on its Lutheran identity. It also has a large non-Lutheran regional draw. And some non-Lutheran pull as a religious community. (Some Roman Catholics or Muslims might be drawn to it a bit just as a place that's somewhat religious.)
Yes, I suppose in the spectrum of schools that have a significant, deliberately Christian component to their identity, Valpo's somewhere left of center. But, who are we comparing with? Wheaton? Oral Roberts? Bob Jones? Notre Dame?
It's possible to go to Valpo and have the Christian and/or Lutheran experience be an important part of your education. When I was there, there were active and dynamic communities of Lutherans (various persuasions), evangelicals, Roman Catholics (great interaction with the nearby Roman Catholic student center and its chaplain), Muslims, and probably others.
It's also very possible to go to Valpo and not be much involved with its religious nature. I suppose there's still a required theology class or two. There still is a daily morning prayer service, but attendance has not been mandatory for ages, if it ever was.
|
|
|
Post by 78crusader on Aug 11, 2008 16:23:27 GMT -5
agibson, The Valpo you describe from 1996 on is very much like the Valpo I experienced from 1974-78. There are two developments that have hurt Valpo, in my judgment, and wil continue to plague VU's recruiting efforts. The first is what I will call the rise of very conservative schools like Wheaton, Calvin, and Taylor,all of whom seem to be more popular now than before. This is probably in large part due to the growing number of very conservative Christians, in the midwest and elsewhere, who are looking to send their kids to very conservative schools. All of these places get good publicity, too, thanks to the annual US News and Princeton Review rankings, neither of which was around 'till maybe 20 years ago. And these schools are very good academically, in some instances equal to or better than VU. The facilities at these places also compare favorably with VU in many cases. Those of you who have been on the campuses of Wheaton or even Taylor would probably agree. The second development has been the perception that VU is becoming a more liberal place. And, as we all know, perception is reality. It doesn't help that VU has made moves recently to become closer to the ELCA. Which leads me back to my original point-- VU gains nothing by a closer affiliation with the ELCA. It seems to me if we want more conservative Christian kids, then VU has to be perceived as a conservative place. If we were more conservative, we lose nothing -- we get some of the kids who would go to Wheaton, etc. while the kids we've always gotten would still come here. But by taking steps which lead some to conclude we are becoming more liberal, we lose all the way around -- the conservative kids will not come here, and the "base" -- the traditional LCMS kids -- likewise stay away. As the noted academician Bill Cosby once noted, "I don't know the road to success, but I do know the road to failure -- try to please everyone." Paul
|
|
|
Post by 78crusader on Aug 11, 2008 17:22:03 GMT -5
Ok, one more point. I went on the internet and learned that in March of this year the ELCA indicated that if the government supports gay marriage, so should the church. ELCA head guy Mark Hanson has suggested recently that those who want to secure our borders and end illegal immigration are "biblically illiterate." See Christian Newswire, March 13, 2008, at Christiannewswire.com. Interestingly, the ELCA has also experienced a substantial decline in membership, while fundamental churches have seen an increase in membership. Why does VU want to strengthen its ties with the ELCA? What do stand to gain? And what do we stand to lose? Paul
|
|
|
Post by vu72 on Aug 11, 2008 17:50:44 GMT -5
Valpo has NEVER been officially affiliated with the LCMS. We are an INDEPENDENT Lutheran school. Valpo, more than any of the other 40 some Lutheran colleges and universities, is a NATIONAL Lutheran university. What this means is that we appeal across all lines of Lutheranism as well as a broad spectrum of students from other traditions. We are similar in that regard to Notre Dame.
Notre Dame, or many other Catholic schools, are Catholic in name only, according to conservtive Catholics. If you want to attend a TRUE Catholic school, you would attend The University of Dallas or The University of Stubenville.
Religion is a state of mind and a general attitude projected by the faculty and staff. By this I mean is Valpo a place where people care about each other and are concerned with the person as well as simple academics? The answer is a definite YES. The fact is there isn't a single class on Lutheranism in the cariculum. The only time it would come up is if you told the Dean of the Chapel that you wanted to convert and then he would lead you through the confirmation process.
Do we want to be placed in a box that puts us at the percieved fringe of Christianity or do we want to be a Christian School who is accepting and open in the true spirit of Liberal Arts studies?
We have as many Lutheran students as any other school in the country. Our appeal is broad as it should be. And by the way, the majority of the Board, including the President, are ELCA members.
|
|
|
Post by 78crusader on Aug 11, 2008 21:03:59 GMT -5
Vu72, you raise several good points. I would agree there are advantages to being known as a National Lutheran University. And I wasn't trying to slam the ELCA, although I disagree strongly with its stance on gay marriage (as do a clear majority of Americans, and probably a vast majority of parents whose kids would consider going to VU). What I question is why VU is taking steps to strengthen its ties with the ELCA, as opposed to other Lutheran churches. I would guess the reason is VU is attempting to broaden its appeal. Why VU would choose to strengthen ties with a denomination like the ELCA, which is losing membership big time, is puzzling to me. Why hitch your wagon to a fading team of horses? I disagree that more conservative schools, such as Wheaton, are on the fringe. I think a good case could be made that it is the ECLA, by virtue of its position on gay marriage, that is on the fringe. Certainly the substantial loss of membership the ELCA has experienced over the past several years would suggest many of its own members have decided the church's position on gay marriage is not mainstream. (Although many ELCA higher ups give several possible explanations for membership defection, they rarely--if ever--consider the possibility that its position on gay marriage is a reason.) Paul
|
|