Valpo Baseball Wins 2 Takes Over 1st in HL

[valpotx]

Apr 21, 2010 14:34:53 GMT -5 valporun said:

I think we're alright with being able to brag that our baseball is finally showing some real signs of life. How many seasons did we have to endure before baseball actually had some real interest in being talked about? Sure, it seems most of this talk is coming from the fair weather fan who only cares that we're winning. Though we are leading the HL with a below .500 record at this current time, which doesn't say great things about HL baseball, at least we're showing some signs of life. bbtds, I think some of our real success in baseball has come from the fact that the focus is now only on recruiting baseball players that will make an actual impact on the varsity team. I heard from Ryan Wronkowicz that Coach Woodson dumped the JV contingent of the baseball program because it was becoming too much to have so many players, most of which were only coming to practice to prepare for playing local community colleges and D-3s. This new focus on one team, that will compete against a mostly D-1 schedule, with the D-3/NAIAs in to get some games for making up rain outs or getting some players a few games to keep their skills sharp, is better than having 50-75+ baseball players trying for hopes of one day being on the varsity, but never getting passed a pinch hitter's role on the JV.

This statement could not be further from the truth. Even though I know you, I have to disagree. Yes, there were some terrible players who were on the JV, that just wanted to say they made a D-1 school's roster. Then there were those of us who through various reasons, needed it as a means of medical rehabilitation or a preparation tool to see live game action. When i played, there were several of us on scholarship who played both JV and varsity ball during their career. Many of our best players played at least a year of JV ball: Justin Craker, Jeff Mandsager, Jon Rupno, Adam Paetznick, etc! I believe we were/are only allowed 12-13 total scholarships or something for the sport, so many of us had partial scholarships, but definitely not all 50+ people on the roster. I think a safe estimate is maybe 20-30 of us had some money for baseball, and more on the academic side as well.

As far as finally recruiting players that would make an impact, that issue was never with recruiting solid players. People like my friend Tom Starck, Mark Pederson (3rd team All-American), JJ Swiatkowski, Jeff Mandsager, etc, were absolute studs on the diamond and could have played at many higher level programs! The problem was with how we were trained to succeed after we made it to the school. As pitchers, we constantly had arm issues because we had non-pitchers leading our drills, and doing things a pitcher should not do.

Finally, I think we should call out some other sports before really saying that baseball has not lived up to standards. This is a Midwest program competing against southern schools for the good part of the first 1-2 months of the season due to weather!! In baseball, the divide is that great between southern and northern baseball! We routinely at least finished in the middle of the pack or higher in conference, while many of our other programs routinely finish last or second to last. I am not going to name those sports...

[valpotx]

May 5, 2010 4:19:00 GMT -5 bbtds said:

After going 1-2 against Milwaukee by losing both games of a double header the FC (freezing Crusaders) lose to Northwestern 10-8 at the Steel Yard in Gary. Have the baseball Crusaders ever won there?

“We swung the bats again tonight which is good to see,” head coach Tracy Woodson said. “We scored some runs early, but need to keep on scoring.”

Valpo gave up 8 runs in the bottom of the 6th.

“We didn’t make plays on routine ground balls and then gave up runs afterwards or turn what should be a double play,” Woodson added. “That hurts. We just couldn’t get out of that one inning.”

Tyler Deetjen pitched 5 innings allowing 2 earned runs.

“We had the decision of whether to leave Deetjen in another inning or two or save him for this weekend,” Woodson said. “Right now our conference weekend series against Butler is more important than midweek games.”

That's correct! Beat Butler in every sport possible. We can't let them win the overall trophy in conference standings!

Yes, we won there during my time playing, and I think even as recently as last year against that same Northwestern school...

[granny]

Good win over UIC, we needed that one. Lets come back & get the second game & build some momentum.....this conference tourney is wide open for anyone to win.

I was watching a little college baseball last night, I wonder where all the pitching is? If you even look at Valpos scores & others in the Horizon, many scores are more like football scores & not baseball. I guess it could be the bats?

[valpo24]

"The problem was with how we were trained to succeed after we made it to the school. As pitchers, we constantly had arm issues because we had non-pitchers leading our drills, and doing things a pitcher should not do."

Valpotx - care to elaborate? What do you mean non-pitchers leading the drills and doing things a pitcher should not do?

Agree with you, though, on the JV team history. Throughout the 90s there were JV players that used that year to develop into players that helped the varsity.

[valpotx]

We had a pitching coach for a 2 year period while I was there, that was not a pitcher. My first few years we had Coach Holmes and Coach Nall, both former pitchers. The last 2 we had someone who was a college hitter, and had us doing extreme weighted throws, which are terrible for your arms/shoulders, since you never throw that much weight on the mound... This has changed over the last few years, which I assume has led to less injuries!

[valpo24]

Jun 19, 2010 14:29:37 GMT -5 valpotx said:

We had a pitching coach for a 2 year period while I was there, that was not a pitcher. My first few years we had Coach Holmes and Coach Nall, both former pitchers. The last 2 we had someone who was a college hitter, and had us doing extreme weighted throws, which are terrible for your arms/shoulders, since you never throw that much weight on the mound... This has changed over the last few years, which I assume has led to less injuries!

Well, being from Texas, I'm assuming you know that Sam Demmel used a weighted throwing progam. Also, Coach Nall at UIC uses a weighted throwing program as well. Additionally, many rehab programs for arm injuries progress to throwing balls heavier than a baseball.
Most college injuries are a result of latent injuries from high school. Throwing a heavy ball will not cause an injury if the player focuses on proper technique. You can't just say that because the pitching coach wasn't a pitcher and had the players throwing heavy balls that injuries resulted. There are other variables at play. Especially considering that one of your cited pitching coach uses similar drills.
Last, did you know that the St. Louis Cardinals' pitching coach was never a pitcher (Dave Duncan)? He's widely regarded as one of the best pitching coaches around. But I guess Chris Carpenter can blame his injury problems on Duncan having never been a pitching coach.

[valpo24]

By the way, Valpotx, I just Googled "weighted baseball throws" and had over 600,000 hits. Two of the hits were very interesting. One was from a former major league pitcher who advocates the use of heavy balls in training. The other was from a guy in Texas - Houston - who has an entire training series developed around the use of heavy balls. He also claims that LSU, Michigan St., and UIC, among others, utilize his program. Perhaps you should have given the pitching coach a chance instead of saying he was a hitter. Too many players prejudge a coach today - especially Valpo players. You're criticizing a guy for using a program that appears to be similar to LSU's, and that program speaks for itself.

[valpotx]

When you say heavy baseball throws, are you talking about weighted baseballs or huge medicine balls? It is not healthy to throw a several pound (5-10 pounds) weighted medicine ball against a wall with your pitching arm. Having experienced Tommy John surgery and rehabbed with the Texas Rangers physical therapist at the time, I can say he would never have advocated what we did. I can see throwing the medicine ball with two arms over your head to strengthen your shoulders, but not going through your pitching motion and throwing a medicine ball in the same manner as a regular ball. Pitching in baseball is such an irregular motion already for your arm, that adding 5-10 lbs to that wear/tear is only going to hurt. The people you are mentioning do not conduct the weighted baseball program in the same manner we experienced.

Unless you are speaking about them utilizing huge medicine balls or have personal experience with what we did, I don't think you can understand...it is not simply weighted throws, it was irregular throws with an inordinate amount of weight, that are not typical in these programs you mentioned. I asked my HS teammate today, who won a national championship at Texas and played with the Yankees, if he did the same stuff, and he thought it was crazy...

[valpo24]

Valpotx - the weighted ball programs used at LSU, Mich. St., and UIC involve weighted balls thrown against a wall. The program utilitizes the full throwing motion. UIC's pitching coach happens to Coach Nall, whom you referenced as being a good coach. I spoke to Coach Nall about the throwing program you complained about, and he questions whether you actually completed it or not. He knows the pitching coach you reference, and that coach was referred to the program by Coach Nall himself.
They aren't "huge medicine balls" and weigh up to 2 lbs. (a football, by comparison, weighs a pound and a half). These aren't 5-10 lb. medicine balls. Are you sure you actually did the program you're talking about? And, didn't your friend have a career-ending injury? Has he done any research? He may think it's crazy, but that doesn't make it wrong. Go tell Paul Maneiri your friend thinks their throwing program is "crazy," and I'm sure he'll change it on the spot.

[valpotx]

You weren't there. Considering I was physically there when we were told to throw these 5+ lb. medicine balls (they said as much on the balls themselves), yes, I am 100% positive we were told to do this on many occasions. Coach Nall was a great pitching coach for us and a great find for UIC, but the other coach I am speaking about must have taken the program to another level after Nall left, thinking the heavier the ball, the faster we could throw. All your views are conjecture, while mine are based on actual fact of having been through the drills on a daily basis.

I am very familiar with true weighted ball programs having been a volunteer coach 2 years ago away from my full-time job for a recent College World Series participant. I know they go up to 2 lbs, however, they are not supposed to be 5+. I also know that they are great if properly run, but over that 2 year period, they were not run properly at all. Again, I am not disputing the value of weighted ball programs, just how it was run during that period. I can line up many people who can vouch that we physically threw 5+ lb. medicine balls...it was not healthy. I am done talking about this, as unless you were there during the drills, you can't speak to it properly.

[valpo24]

Well, ValpoTx, I WAS there. Coach Twenge is a personal friend, and I observed practice on many occasions. I know for a FACT that the heaviest ball thrown against the wall with a pitching motion was two pounds. TWO. Not 5-10. Again, a football is a pound and a half.
I also know for a fact that you never did the drills. You were injured at the time, and only pitched on the JV team. You did not work with the coach in question, so don't talk as if you were there and accuse others, who were there, of not knowing what they're talking about.
Every drill the Valpo pitchers did during that time frame was recommended by Coach Nall. I witness the recommendation.

[crusaderguy08]

Wow. This may have set a record for the longest time between posts in a thread, especially considering it is a direct response to someone. Is this really the place to air out this dirty laundry?

[valpotx]

Yes, please lock this thread. I have said many times on this forum that I played JV ball after not coming back from a surgery, so nothing new there. I can dispute these comments until 'the cows come home,' and bring in some varsity players to back me up, but not worth my time...let it die