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Post by rlh on May 27, 2010 15:44:07 GMT -5
and the devil said.....................................
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Post by wh on May 27, 2010 17:41:25 GMT -5
I went on opening night with a number of VU professors, one of which brought their 7-year-old. We all ordered our food around 6:20. The first wave of orders came out at 7:10. I didn't get my food until 7:40. The 7-year-old never got her grilled cheese sandwich. That said, the manager came over and took care of the bill without any of us saying anything (we all understood it was the first night). In addition, he gave us 20 percent off coupons for a return visit. I returned last week and it was great. My biggest issue is that they don't serve hard alcohol. They have beer and wine, but no vodka. I don't understand this town's lack of places to get alcohol. When Red Robin opened, they were denied a request for a three-way liquor license, so they purchased the license from Brewski's. Pretty much anywhere else in the world, you can find a bar on almost every corner...except Valparaiso, where apparently drinking means you're the devil. The situation you're talking about is driven in large part by an anti-smoking ordinance passed by the City of Valparaiso in 2006. www.valparaisotreasurer.org/Ordinances/2006/06-49.pdf Smoking is permitted in bars, but not restaurants. Where it gets complicated are combination bar-restaurants. Smoking is allowed in the bar area only if the bar area has a completely separate entrance from the restaurant, and the bar is walled off from the restaurant, and the bar has separate cooking facilities. Unless all of these conditions are met, the business owner has 2 choices: (1) either be officially designated as a bar, in which case no one under 21 is allowed to enter - even in the restaurant section, or (2) be designated as a restaurant, in which case no smoking is permitted anywhere, including the bar area. So, owners of combination bar-restaurants are hesitant to buy expensive 3-way liquor licenses, because most smokers want to smoke when they drink, so they shy away from a bar-restaurant in favor of a bar only. For the most part, the new ordinance is popular with the public. People can go into any restaurant in Valpo without any concern about inhaling second hand smoke or exposing their families to it. Restaurant workers no longer have to live with years of breathing other people's cigarette smoke, etc. IMO, living in an area that offers fewer establishments where you can order both dinner and mixed drinks is a minor inconvenience in exchange for the greater good of a healthier public environment. Consider yourself fortunate pgmado that you live in a forward thinking, model community, rather than any of a million "tired" looking communities everywhere "with a bar on every corner."
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Post by vu72 on May 27, 2010 19:13:17 GMT -5
We here in progressive Minnesota simply don't allow smoking almost anywhere, not even outside at the airport!
People have to go outside their office buildings for a smoke. All resturants have no smoking so there is no problem getting a drink with dinner. Seems like Valpo is trying to have it both ways with the accompanying disappointment on the part of some diners.
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Post by wayne on May 27, 2010 21:44:52 GMT -5
It also used to be a jim dandys malt shop I believe. The shoneys that 89 is talking about is where kelseys is currently
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Post by vu72 on May 27, 2010 22:20:58 GMT -5
Anybody remember the Orange Bowl?
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Post by wh on May 27, 2010 22:37:35 GMT -5
We here in progressive Minnesota simply don't allow smoking almost anywhere, not even outside at the airport! People have to go outside their office buildings for a smoke. All resturants have no smoking so there is no problem getting a drink with dinner. Seems like Valpo is trying to have it both ways with the accompanying disappointment on the part of some diners. You're comparing apples to oranges, '72. Minnesota has a statewide ban on smoking in bars; Indiana doesn't. Thus, had the Valpo ordinance banned smoking in bars, all smokers would have to do is go to a bar outside the city limits or in adjacent towns. That would put legitimate, longstanding, tax paying bar businesses like Northside Tap, Franklin House, and others in great jeopardy - for no constructive purpose. That's the delicate balancing act that cities with progressive leadership have to deal when only they have the courage to take on issues like this. Congratulations to Mayor Costas and former City Administrator Bill Hanna for finding a creative solution to a complex issue.
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Post by wh on May 27, 2010 22:52:34 GMT -5
Anybody remember the Orange Bowl? I remember the Orange Bowl very well - owned by the Wiesjahn family. They then opened up Azar's Big Boy where Broadway Cafe now is. This just came to me - was the original restaurant a Denny's where Industrial Revolution is?
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Post by valpo04 on May 28, 2010 6:38:39 GMT -5
That's the delicate balancing act that cities with progressive leadership have to deal when only they have the courage to take on issues like this. Congratulations to Mayor Costas and former City Administrator Bill Hanna for finding a creative solution to a complex issue. What is courageous about telling private businesses how to run their business? If the public truly didn't like smoking in a restaurant, non-smoking restaurants would open and smoking restaurants would go out of business. If a restaurant wants to be smoke free voluntarily, that is one thing but government mandated smoking bans are a huge intrusion by the government on a private business. I don't smoke but I respect the rights of private business owners to make decisions to allow or not allow certain activities that are otherwise legal for their customers.
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Post by vu72 on May 28, 2010 7:20:08 GMT -5
That's the delicate balancing act that cities with progressive leadership have to deal when only they have the courage to take on issues like this. Congratulations to Mayor Costas and former City Administrator Bill Hanna for finding a creative solution to a complex issue. What is courageous about telling private businesses how to run their business? If the public truly didn't like smoking in a restaurant, non-smoking restaurants would open and smoking restaurants would go out of business. If a restaurant wants to be smoke free voluntarily, that is one thing but government mandated smoking bans are a huge intrusion by the government on a private business. I don't smoke but I respect the rights of private business owners to make decisions to allow or not allow certain activities that are otherwise legal for their customers. Couldn't agree more 04, my post hopefully didn't indicate my approval of government's intrusion into private business, just the reality of living in a place like Minnesota. Thanks wh for clarifying the difference between Minnesota and Indiana law.
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Post by wh on May 28, 2010 8:56:34 GMT -5
What is courageous about telling private businesses how to run their business? If the public truly didn't like smoking in a restaurant, non-smoking restaurants would open and smoking restaurants would go out of business. If a restaurant wants to be smoke free voluntarily, that is one thing but government mandated smoking bans are a huge intrusion by the government on a private business. I don't smoke but I respect the rights of private business owners to make decisions to allow or not allow certain activities that are otherwise legal for their customers. Couldn't agree more 04, my post hopefully didn't indicate my approval of government's intrusion into private business, just the reality of living in a place like Minnesota. Thanks wh for clarifying the difference between Minnesota and Indiana law. I doubt very much that local restaurant owners see the ordinance as "government intrusion." It has enabled them to make a change they could never risk making on their own. As a result, Valpo restaurants are healthier places and more family-friendly. You may disagree with the decision, but Mayor Costas did show courage in making it. He could have saved himself a lot of grief by simply playing it safe and maintaining the status quo. I'm curious, '72 and '04. - Both of your states have state-wide smoking bans for restaurants and bars. If you had magic wands and could undue this legislation and return everything to the way it was, can you honestly say you would - just for the sake of limited government? Somehow I doubt it. I'm willing to bet that underneath it all you're very happy to be able to walk into a restaurant anywhere without having to smell cigarette smoke, breathe in smoke, wait for a table in non-smoking while 3 tables are open in smoking, etc., etc. True?
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Post by valpo04 on May 28, 2010 9:10:07 GMT -5
I'm curious, '72 and '04. - Both of your states have state-wide smoking bans for restaurants and bars. If you had magic wands and could undue this legislation and return everything to the way it was, can you honestly say you would - just for the sake of limited government? Somehow I doubt it. I'm willing to bet that underneath it all you're very happy to be able to walk into a restaurant anywhere without having to smell cigarette smoke, breathe in smoke, wait for a table in non-smoking while 3 tables are open in smoking, etc., etc. True? If I had a magic wand, I would make smoking go away altogether. But as it is, smoking is a choice that is perfectly legal for all adults to do. If a private business wants to allow this activity inside their building, they should be allowed to do so. In some states its legal to carry guns on your person. Should restaurants be forced to allow people to carry guns, because the government says they can? To me its the same thing. The government deciding what is okay and what is not, then forcing that decision on a private business. Of course I am very happy that I can walk into a bar or restaurant and not smell like smoke, but again, it was always my choice to go out to those places and spend my money there, knowing that I would be inhaling it and smelling like it. In the hypothetical world that has magic wands, I would open a bar amongst the popular hangouts that was voluntarily smoke free, wave the wand again to have all the non-smokers come there and be successful. Unfortunately, I don't have that magic wand and unfortunately the government here in MD decided to not allow smoking in bars because its harmful to non-smokers, yet customers can continue to go into them, get piss-drunk and drive home. Oh, and they also decided that smoking is bad for our veterans as well. The same veterans that were issued cigarettes in their rations. These guys can't even smoke inside their VFWs/American Legions, which are private clubs and restrict access to their buildings. So, in a nutshell, no I wouldn't put my principles aside when it benefits me to do so.
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Post by vu72 on May 28, 2010 10:38:37 GMT -5
I grew up at a point where everybody smoked (I never have smoked cigarettes) and the fraternity house/restaurants/everywhere smelled like smoke because there was smoke everywhere. I honestly didn't mind it but now, after years of change I do have to agree that I prefer the smoke free environment.
Having said that, once in awhile (and I still have a vice or two) I'd like to smoke a cigar with a great after diner drink, after enjoying a great streak. No such luck unless I'm in Mexico.
04 stated it very well. My preference is that government let people who are doing something very legal, solve their own problems (smoking) via economic forces. If I know that a place allows smoking and I don't want to have smoke then I go elsewhere. As stated earlier, there are times when I would enjoy going to a place that has a cigar room and great port, and enjoy a big stogie. No such luck here in the land of lefties.
People should be able to do things that are legal and businesses should be able to decide on the services they provide. It is called free enterprise.
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Post by wh on Jul 27, 2010 15:14:41 GMT -5
I went on opening night with a number of VU professors, one of which brought their 7-year-old. We all ordered our food around 6:20. The first wave of orders came out at 7:10. I didn't get my food until 7:40. The 7-year-old never got her grilled cheese sandwich. That said, the manager came over and took care of the bill without any of us saying anything (we all understood it was the first night). In addition, he gave us 20 percent off coupons for a return visit. I returned last week and it was great. My biggest issue is that they don't serve hard alcohol. They have beer and wine, but no vodka. I don't understand this town's lack of places to get alcohol. When Red Robin opened, they were denied a request for a three-way liquor license, so they purchased the license from Brewski's. Pretty much anywhere else in the world, you can find a bar on almost every corner...except Valparaiso, where apparently drinking means you're the devil. The City of Valparaiso has no control whatsoever over the number of licenses that are available. In 2008 the IN State Legislature passed a law which establishes liquor license quotas according to population size. From the IN ATF website: More than 15,000 and less than 80,000: 1 beer One (1) beer dealer permit per 3,500 persons or eight (8) beer dealer permits, whichever is greater. One (1) liquor dealer permit per 3,500 persons or eight (8) liquor dealer permits, whichever is greater. Valpo was already at the max. at the time Red Robin wanted a license. So, the only way they could get one is to purchase an existing license from another retailer. According to their website 99% of all available licenses across the state are taken. Lastly, the only reason some towns seem to "have a bar on every corner" is because existing licenses were grandfathered at the time the law was enacted.
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Post by humbleopinion on Jul 28, 2010 8:29:17 GMT -5
Anybody remember the Orange Bowl? I remember the Orange Bowl very well - owned by the Wiesjahn family. They then opened up Azar's Big Boy where Broadway Cafe now is. This just came to me - was the original restaurant a Denny's where Industrial Revolution is? Ed's Drive-in served up great root beer at the site. After Ed's it became a Sambo's. Denny's was up at the intersedction by K-Mart. There was never a Shoney's in town.
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Post by rlh on Jul 28, 2010 9:07:14 GMT -5
Sorry....but the new Kelsey's, once Denney's....was a SHONEY's when I moved here in '92
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