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Post by wh on Jan 3, 2011 19:37:25 GMT -5
Longtime WSU and HL fans bballraider and bigdwsu have an idea to use HLN broadcasts as a revenue source for HL programs. I think it's an interesting one that merits consideration.
bballraider
I think we could generate some revenue if the HLN started charging for the internet broadcasts. Say $5/game and the school hosting is the one that sells the broadcast. But I also think that all season ticket holders at each of the Horizon League schools gets free access. (Also each school would be allowed to give access to recruits and families of the players, so as not to hurt the recruiting benefits of the HLN.)
This would make it a perk to have season tickets, and those that do not want to pay for tickets to the home games and sit and watch at home would now be forced to come up with $5. This may make a few people reconsider whether they attend the games or not at home. This may either help attendance or at least increase revenue enough to help lower the ticket prices a little.
bigdwsu
I've been advocating that for years bballraider. I gladly pay to watch internet broadcasts everytime we play an OOC road game I cannot attend even though the quality is much inferior to the HLN. It pisses me off to no end knowing we give away this service for free. I think we could easily sell a $5 per game fee, $25 season pass for 1 HL team, or a $50 season pass for the entire HL. It doesn't make sense that we are giving this service away for free when other schools and conferences are making money off it.
I never though about offering it to season ticket holders for free or player's families, or recruits but I think that is a good idea. I just don't know if they would be allowed to offer it to player's families or recruits with the NCAA rules. It might be considered an extra benefit. You know how retarded the NCAA is about these things.
As a season ticket holder, I like the idea. It has always bothered me a little that while I pay for season tickets and go support the team in person, people who choose to stay home can watch the game for free. I'm wondering if anyone has any other thoughts about this?
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Post by valpo84 on Jan 3, 2011 21:12:00 GMT -5
Paying for HLN is a bad idea. As someone who does not live anywhere close to Valpo, it makes sense to have the broadest possible opportunity to showcase this conference. Free makes it available for average bball fans to watch every game. For season ticket holders, we applaud your support and efforts to attend games. I'd rather be there in person. Plus, a casual fan who watches at home, might become excited enough to start to attend. Plus, theoretically, season tix holders do have certain benefits -- access to games, priority for tourney games, the same great seat, etc. (sorry those may not seem like much these days). WGN used to be on cable everywhere and people are Cubs fans all over. It doesn't hurt their home attendance, but now that every game isn't on my cable, I don't watch as much, don't really want to buy MLB package, and care less and less about my favorite team. Access is very important in building the conference. I know I wouldn't pay $5/game to watch Horizon league games, esp Wright State versus anyone else in Horizon but Valpo. But, I will watch Wright State and other Horizon League opponents if it's free. Even the NCAA is now free on computer for the tourney. (at least it has been while they build their base). They used to use this argument about blacking out local sports teams. BTW, it will not lower ticket prices. Why lower ticket prices when others are willing to pay for computer access? It's accretive not a zero-sum game. Demand is set by the value of the product. Horizon league venues are pretty reasonable entertainment tickets/cost anyway. When the Horizon League and its members have sold out arenas and there is high demand on computer servers, then think about charging for access, until then, they need everyone they can get to watch these games. Just my 2cents.
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Post by sanitylost17 on Jan 3, 2011 22:12:27 GMT -5
I think each hosting school should be allowed to sell commercial time. Put it on the marketing departments of each individual school to generate revenue. I mean, facebook is worth 50 billion dollars and it's a free service. It's all about advertising! I am guessing that is the ultimate goal, but the viewership is not there yet for it to be profitable. The way to increase viewership is to offer it for free and get as many fans hooked on HL basketball as possible. Perhaps in 10 years when a high viewership goal and advertising goal is reached, then you could think about making it a pay service. Until then, this is definately a pre-mature discussion.
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Post by bigdwsu on Jan 3, 2011 22:31:12 GMT -5
Every team in the HL is loosing money by having the HLN free. First off, the HL spends approximately 200K a year to run the HLN. If we charged for it we could at least recoup that money. Second, it discourages fans from attending games in person. A decade ago I would travel to every HL school to watch my Raiders play. I haven't gone to an away game in years because of the HLN. It's too easy to stay at home and watch for free. And I know I'm not the only one doing this. I asked a friend in our ticket office about this. 8 years ago (when WSU wasn't even very good) we sold an average of 150-200 seats a game to our opponent's fans (that we were able to track from where the tickets were purchased on ticketmaster). Last year, when we were second in the HL, we sold less than 1/2 of that. Why would fans from an opposing team come to our place and pay $17 a ticket when they can stay at home and watch for free?
I usually watch 4-5 games a year on our OOC schedule online for a fee. I have paid between $4.95 to $9.95. Some of the schools let you buy a one game pass. Others sold a 1 month pass. I gladly paid it to watch my team play and I know a couple of other dozen Raider fans did too.
The MVC charges for games. Many MAC teams charge for games. Several A-10 teams charge. It doesn't make sense that we aren't.
At the very least, I think the HLN should offer games live for a fee and free on a 2 hour tape delay. That would still encourage fans to see the game live and in person.
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Post by valpospartan on Jan 4, 2011 0:21:14 GMT -5
IMHO, the telecasts will have to improve greatly if the HL starts to charge for them.
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Post by bballraider on Jan 4, 2011 1:34:34 GMT -5
First I should clarify that I am a big fan of the HLN and the access it gives to the league. The only reason I brought up the pay to watch idea was after I heard of several people that live within 10 minutes of WSU's Nutter Center and used to attend games but now they stay home because of the free HLN service.
Then others brought up that attendance was down, and to counteract the low attendance, some school's were offering 2-for-1s or discounted tickets, which just devalued the season ticket holders that paid full price in advance of the season. So I thought it wouldn't be bad to make the HLN a perk for season ticket holders, which are the foundation of every HL school's budget, while getting some more of the local fans back to the arena.
I would also suggest allowing students free access and giving an HLN season pass discount to alumni outside 65 miles of their school's location. I am looking at this more as a way to get people to the games, increase season ticket holders and maybe bring in a little extra revenue.
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mj
Bench Warmer
Posts: 124
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Post by mj on Jan 4, 2011 2:02:06 GMT -5
The only reason I brought up the pay to watch idea was after I heard of several people that live within 10 minutes of WSU's Nutter Center and used to attend games but now they stay home because of the free HLN service.
I've never seen a game at the Nutter Center but it sounds like the problem is with the atmosphere at the games and the price of tickets. If given the choice, I'd rather see Valpo play in person than watch the game on my computer screen. Unless tickets were a price I couldn't afford/wouldn't pay.
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Post by agibson on Jan 4, 2011 5:37:53 GMT -5
I might be willing to cough up $5 per game - but it might also mean I'd watch fewer games.
The attention given to streaming services by e.g. Whelliston's #pixelvision suggests to me that there
is considerable value in keeping it free. I guess the HLN has some statistics.
Perhaps a low res version (maybe the current service, or even slightly lower quality?) free, and an improved version for a charge?
Or, if the concern is that home fans aren't going to games, you could require registration, and charge if your billing zip code is too close to the home game. But, that's going to scare off casual fans.
I don't imagine the lost revenue from fans not traveling with the team is much of a concern. I guess it's only a smallish number of hard core fans that travel much in the horizon league. Maybe the teams are concerned with keeping those dedicated fans motivated, but I doubt the consideration is related too much to the price of the tickets they buy.
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Post by bballraider on Jan 4, 2011 15:02:00 GMT -5
I've never seen a game at the Nutter Center but it sounds like the problem is with the atmosphere at the games and the price of tickets. If given the choice, I'd rather see Valpo play in person than watch the game on my computer screen. Unless tickets were a price I couldn't afford/wouldn't pay. I do not believe it has anything to do with the atmosphere at the games, when the games are close the crowd at the Nutter Center is great. However, up until now the majority of games at the Nutter Center have been blowouts, so the crowds have not had to be into the game so to speak. There are some small things that need changed, but nothing to keep people from coming to the games. The main problem for attendance this year at WSU is the lack of quality "name" teams and the state of the economy. Just about everybody on all the message boards would probably much rather see a game in person than free over the internet, but it's not the passionate fans that we are losing in attendance at the games this year, they are still there. It's the average fan that enjoys basketball, but doesn't live or die for the games that we may be losing to the internet. Right now I would say WSU has been drawing anywhere from 500 to 1000 less people to the games this year. These are the people that are on the fence about coming to watch and staying home to see the game for free. Dayton has a lot of basketball fans in our town, and they show up for big "name" games (like Butler), but not the other games, even if the teams are good like Oakland. This may not be the case with other HL schools, but since I do not pay that much attention to their normal attendance, I do not know if attendance is up or down this year around the HL. |
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Post by sanitylost17 on Jan 4, 2011 15:36:06 GMT -5
Every team in the HL is loosing money by having the HLN free. First off, the HL spends approximately 200K a year to run the HLN. I would argue that the HL is not losing 200k a year, but rather INVESTING 200K a year to market the HL to potential new customers, new recruits, and prospective students. If the HL wanted to recoup most of this money through the airing of local and national ads they probably could. However, I am not sure they would even want to do that. 200k spread accross 10 schools is actually a pretty cheap way to promote your school through the current commercials that they have airing. |
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Post by blackpantheruwm on Jan 4, 2011 18:01:15 GMT -5
It's an interesting idea. However, don't forget the HL Tournament in HLN's first year, which was an abject failure as many did it.
In the end, if we were all filling our arenas, I'd say let's do it. As it stands, we're not.
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Post by bigdwsu on Jan 4, 2011 19:17:28 GMT -5
Every team in the HL is loosing money by having the HLN free. First off, the HL spends approximately 200K a year to run the HLN. I would argue that the HL is not losing 200k a year, but rather INVESTING 200K a year to market the HL to potential new customers, new recruits, and prospective students. If the HL wanted to recoup most of this money through the airing of local and national ads they probably could. However, I am not sure they would even want to do that. 200k spread accross 10 schools is actually a pretty cheap way to promote your school through the current commercials that they have airing. I don't know what your experience is in business, but if my company "invested" well over a million dollars into a venture and received ABSOLUTELY no return I would say that was a pretty poor investment. If the purpose of the HLN is to promote the HL, a reasonable return on that investment would be for it to increase attendances across the HL. It hasn't done that. Take a look at attendance numbers for HL team since the HLN started. Butler is the only team doing better in attendance and that is all due to their NCAA tournament success over the last few years, not extra exposure on the HLN. |
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Post by bballraider on Jan 4, 2011 19:21:30 GMT -5
It's an interesting idea. However, don't forget the HL Tournament in HLN's first year, which was an abject failure as many did it. In the end, if we were all filling our arenas, I'd say let's do it. As it stands, we're not. I understand the supply and demand theory of waiting until the arenas are full, then we have an audience that may be willing to pay more. But there is a lot to be said about "why buy the cow when the milk is free" theory too. The HL Tournament was a disaster because they had offered it free all year and then took it away at the worst possible time, when the most was at stake. Plus my idea is to allow all season ticket holders and students free access with alumni outside the area a discount on the service. I would be curious as to how many people that actually watch the HLN are outside that realm. I am guessing most of the people that complained fell in one of those three categories. Having said that, I also understand the idea of gaining exposure with free access to the HLN. Maybe there is a middle ground. Let's say we only make it PPV during the non-conference games, while giving free access to those groups I mentioned above and charging everybody else. And then make it free to all during conference games. Whenever WSU is playing on the road, I spend money to these other institutions to watch online, and then on return games, their fans get to turn around and watch us for free. That doesn't seem fair either. Maybe charging PPV in the OOC games early in the year gets more people to the games in November/December and hopefully hooks them on the whole at the game experience and they come back again. It's a fine line between PPV and not, and its hard to make an accurate decision without the data on who is actually watching the games online. Maybe they should start with a simple questionnaire before allowing access before each game now to collect the data for future decisions. |
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Post by dcvalpo on Jan 5, 2011 12:30:18 GMT -5
Right now I would say WSU has been drawing anywhere from 500 to 1000 less people to the games this year. These are the people that are on the fence about coming to watch and staying home to see the game for free. C'mon...500-1000 people aren't staying home due to the HLN. Get serious. |
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Post by dcvalpo on Jan 5, 2011 12:31:11 GMT -5
If you take away free access, you will only hurt the Horizon League. Your casual fans won't become rabid, game-attending fans, they just will watch less HL basketball.
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