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Post by valpo10 on Mar 9, 2011 11:30:10 GMT -5
An average Butler team still wins the Horizon... When will it end
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Post by stlvufan on Mar 9, 2011 12:35:48 GMT -5
An average Butler team still wins the Horizon... When will it end They might be average by Butler standards, but by HL standards? I dunno about that.
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Post by valporun on Mar 9, 2011 13:44:22 GMT -5
In terms of the NIT bid, Milwaukee will get it because they were still in the HL tournament to the championship game. I feel, in my interpretation, that the tie-breaker protocol for the tournament seedings is the same as declaring a regular season champion. Milwaukee did what it had to do to get the #1 seed in the HL tourney, and it also, in my opinion, gives them the NIT auto-bid because they had to beat the teams in front of them during regular season play to even get consideration. Valpo didn't do this. If they get an NIT bid, it is out of luck, more than what they did during the season. At best, Valpo gets an invite to the CBI or the CIT. The guys didn't do enough during the season to get the NIT bid, when you have Butler, Milwaukee, and Cleveland State ahead of you in the regular season, you shouldn't get a premiere tournament invite.
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Post by stlvufan on Mar 9, 2011 16:36:46 GMT -5
After reading the procedure, my interpretation also is that Milwaukee is automatically in. "Tie-breaking protocol" means only one thing, it can't mean who finishes first versus who gets the #1 seed, as if those are 2 different things. Milwaukee, CSU, and Butler can all hang HL Co-Champion banners in their venues and you won't be able to tell the difference between them. The only thing "tie-breaking protocol" could possibly refer to is conference tournament seeding.
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Post by valpo10 on Mar 9, 2011 17:25:54 GMT -5
An average Butler team still wins the Horizon... When will it end They might be average by Butler standards, but by HL standards? I dunno about that. That's the point. Butler was down and they still win.
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Post by wh on Mar 9, 2011 17:48:43 GMT -5
They might be average by Butler standards, but by HL standards? I dunno about that. That's the point. Butler was down and they still win. Adding to the frustration...Butler was down while several other programs were supposedly up - and they still won. I guess it's time to change Howard Little's quote on my signature line.
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Post by okinawatyphoon on Mar 9, 2011 17:51:04 GMT -5
While it's frustrating to have Butler win again, I take some comfort in the fact that we beat them this season, and they lost to Youngstown.
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Post by stlvufan on Mar 9, 2011 18:55:06 GMT -5
While it's frustrating to have Butler win again, I take some comfort in the fact that we beat them this season, and they lost to Youngstown. Yep. I got a different take. Butler is not invincible. They set a very good example. The fact that 4 teams beat them this year (one of them twice) indicates that the mountain can be scaled. This is the kind of frustration that needs to be channeled. Of course, this isn't like 3-handed Hearts, where my buddy and I try to gang up on my other buddy who's in the lead by a huge margin to give him 25 points this hand Ultimately, we're sort of scraping and clawing at each other as much as we're fighting to be as good as Butler. We can't band together to take them down. Each team is on their own. The question that remains to be answered is: are we up to it?
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Post by stlvufan on Mar 11, 2011 22:51:02 GMT -5
That's the point. Butler was down and they still win. Adding to the frustration...Butler was down while several other programs were supposedly up - and they still won. I guess it's time to change Howard Little's quote on my signature line. The only team to have a stranglehold on this conference is the Green Bay Lady Phoenix. They are well on their way to averaging a winning margin of 40+ points in this conference tournament. Even the Butler men have never been this dominant.
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rink
Bench Warmer
Posts: 198
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Post by rink on Mar 12, 2011 1:30:29 GMT -5
That's the point. Butler was down and they still win. This. How effing frustrating is it that Butler has their worst year in a decade, we have our best year in the Horizon, and they're stilll head-and-shoulders better than us? Nothing grinds my gears more than knowing how far away we really were ... a chance to control our own destiny, a complete meltdown, and not totally unexpected given our coaching staff's inability to inspire intensity ... all the while a slow-and-steady Bball program of fundamentals and professionalism in Butler waiting in the wings to swoop in and casually grab what we would have killed ourseleves to work for -- kudos to them (pricks), but holy hell does it suck on our end. And please don't being up NCAAW in this thread ... a sport that sees so little parity that Knoxville or Uconn pretty much repeat every single year deserves no credence in what's going on in Horizon's NCAAB.
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Post by vu72 on Mar 12, 2011 11:11:18 GMT -5
Ah yes, hyperbole. A wonderful thing. Where would rink be without it.
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Post by stlvufan on Mar 12, 2011 14:27:07 GMT -5
And please don't being up NCAAW in this thread ... a sport that sees so little parity that Knoxville or Uconn pretty much repeat every single year deserves no credence in what's going on in Horizon's NCAAB. Be that as it may, my point remains: the Butler men are very catchable. If we don't, it's on us. They have more bad losses in conference (Loyola, 2009, YSU this year) since we joined than the Green Bay Lady Phoenix (who have none). In other words, it's hardly a hopeless cause.
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Post by wh on Mar 12, 2011 17:22:53 GMT -5
And please don't being up NCAAW in this thread ... a sport that sees so little parity that Knoxville or Uconn pretty much repeat every single year deserves no credence in what's going on in Horizon's NCAAB. Be that as it may, my point remains: the Butler men are very catchable. If we don't, it's on us. They have more bad losses in conference (Loyola, 2009, YSU this year) since we joined than the Green Bay Lady Phoenix (who have none). In other words, it's hardly a hopeless cause. It's anything but a hopeless cause. Butler finished 2nd in league play, and they backed into that thanks to us and CSU laying eggs at the end of league play. They're not as good this year as they were last, and without Howard they won't be as good next year as they were this. Their freshman class was way over hyped by inflated Rivals rankings. Their lower ESPN/Scout rankings proved to be far more accurate. Had they gotten Zeller, it would be a different story right now - but they didn't. No doubt they will be very competitive, but unless someone comes along that no one knows about and makes an immediate impact, I will not be surprised at all if they finish from 2nd to 4th next year.
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Post by blackpantheruwm on Mar 13, 2011 13:47:30 GMT -5
They lose Matt Howard, first teamer for four years. Like Gordon Hayward, you just don't replace that in one year.
And let's get real. "Butler's worst year in a decade." Really? I know a couple people here have laid into rink, but I'll take a turn.
One thing I hate more than anything is when people refer to Butler as a dynasty or takl about their domination. They just won their third tournament championship in a decade. They've got regular season titles, sure, but they've shared them with other teams twice (and been the 2 seed both times).
Butler has been the best team of the past 5 years and the decade, but they're far - very far - from dominant.
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Post by zvillehaze on Mar 13, 2011 19:33:14 GMT -5
They lose Matt Howard, first teamer for four years. Like Gordon Hayward, you just don't replace that in one year. And let's get real. "Butler's worst year in a decade." Really? I know a couple people here have laid into rink, but I'll take a turn. One thing I hate more than anything is when people refer to Butler as a dynasty or takl about their domination. They just won their third tournament championship in a decade. They've got regular season titles, sure, but they've shared them with other teams twice (and been the 2 seed both times). Butler has been the best team of the past 5 years and the decade, but they're far - very far - from dominant. Agree. A truly "dominant" team would have done better than winning/sharing 9 of the last 12 regular season championships. I know my place ... I'm just content with 11 NCAA wins in the last 12 seasons (this year's outcome TBD ... expect something average). For pure dominance, check out Valpo's history. They didn't have the lapses in the MidCon that Butler has had in the Horizon.
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