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Post by blackpantheruwm on Mar 11, 2011 16:20:36 GMT -5
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rink
Bench Warmer
Posts: 198
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Post by rink on Mar 12, 2011 1:07:38 GMT -5
Okay stluvufan, were you an English major or a Philosophy major? Very well-written, intelligent response ... awesome stuff to have on this board. I gotta tell you though, we're going to disagree when you say, "There's no way in College Basketball to prove who is the best team". One game at their house, one game at our house. Multiplied by every team in the conference ... I know there's lucky bounces and bad calls and crazy variance from time to time, but home-away times every team in Horizon works for me, on average, to determine who is best team.
I won't be disuaded that the mini-playoff of a conference tournaments is wholly unfair and counter-productive to the importance of conference competition, but I very much respect the logic of your impassioned and thoughtful essay.
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rink
Bench Warmer
Posts: 198
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Post by rink on Mar 12, 2011 1:15:12 GMT -5
And plackpantheruwm, thank YOU for the link to a well-couched pic of scantily-clad co-eds. A great reminder that despite my current living arrangement / house arrest, I really NEED to spend more time down on Water street. Those girls never seem to show up at Major Goolesby's....
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Post by stlvufan on Mar 12, 2011 14:17:06 GMT -5
Okay stluvufan, were you an English major or a Philosophy major? Computer Science. Thank you It's the sample size that I don't like. 2 vs. 18 (MLB). Not nearly enough time for all the lucky bounces/bad calls/etc. to even out. I don't know that I'm disagreeing with your conclusion. I think I'm disagreeing with your premise instead. Thanks again.
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Post by theladybook on Mar 12, 2011 18:25:03 GMT -5
Quick questions: why is the Horizon wedded to campus sites? For total fairness, a neutral site is best, isn't it? Is money the big factor? Also, there are other teams on the tube this weekend who have played three games in three days, so obviously some other conferences don't worry about resting/favoring their season champs--what am I missing here?
TY
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Post by wh on Mar 12, 2011 21:17:00 GMT -5
Quick questions: why is the Horizon wedded to campus sites? For total fairness, a neutral site is best, isn't it? Is money the big factor? Also, there are other teams on the tube this weekend who have played three games in three days, so obviously some other conferences don't worry about resting/favoring their season champs--what am I missing here? TY You're missing nothing. The "miss" occurred in 2002. It was orchestrated by someone from Indianapolis with an entitlement mentality and a used car salesman from Milwaukee.
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Post by valporun on Mar 12, 2011 23:10:33 GMT -5
Quick questions: why is the Horizon wedded to campus sites? For total fairness, a neutral site is best, isn't it? Is money the big factor? Also, there are other teams on the tube this weekend who have played three games in three days, so obviously some other conferences don't worry about resting/favoring their season champs--what am I missing here? TY I think the conference is wedded to conference sites because of the money aspect. A neutral site would be best, but with how some of the draw fans in during the regular season, having a neutral site would be more difficult, when you'd have a Noon 1st round game between say CSU and YSU, and no one from Ohio came because they were working, or waiting for their team to make the semis. Most of the tournaments this week where teams had a couple of days off, or played three games in as many days, were in tourneys where all the games were at one site, so they didn't have to travel from say Youngstown to Green Bay to Indianapolis, as an example. The travel aspect to campus sites can play a major fact when you're spending so much time on a cramped bus, getting no real leg space or time to just sit, nap, maybe an ice bath. I get the concept from the financial aspect, but I think fans like the ability to see all the games in one place. I do have a strong feeling that if the HL Tournament were held in Chicago or Indianapolis on a regular basis, fans would definitely show up, as they would have shopping, museums, and various areas to walk/explore between games, get a chance to enjoy the ambience of a city, but like the HL feels, they want to bring the money back to the conference schools, not just to the conference.
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Post by fwalum on Mar 12, 2011 23:28:25 GMT -5
Just wondering what everyone thought of the MVC's Arch Madness tournament? I think the MVC has done a great job of packaging and promoting their tournament. Seems that it is higher profile than the Horizon. Watching Indiana State and Missouri State play on CBS made me sick knowing how we handled Missouri State. Does playing a more traditional tournament have more appeal to basketball fans outside of the conference?
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Post by wh on Mar 13, 2011 0:03:52 GMT -5
Just wondering what everyone thought of the MVC's Arch Madness tournament? I think the MVC has done a great job of packaging and promoting their tournament. Seems that it is higher profile than the Horizon. Watching Indiana State and Missouri State play on CBS made me sick knowing how we handled Missouri State. Does playing a more traditional tournament have more appeal to basketball fans outside of the conference? Watching paint dry is more exciting than the HL Tournament. But then, it's not designed to generate excitement. It's designed to award the championship to the No.1 seed, and if not, the No. 2. A tournament is never going to draw well when everyone knows the odds are so heavily slanted in favor of 1 or 2 teams over all the rest. You can't have it both ways.
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Post by vuweathernerd on Mar 13, 2011 1:04:09 GMT -5
Just wondering what everyone thought of the MVC's Arch Madness tournament? I think the MVC has done a great job of packaging and promoting their tournament. Seems that it is higher profile than the Horizon. Watching Indiana State and Missouri State play on CBS made me sick knowing how we handled Missouri State. Does playing a more traditional tournament have more appeal to basketball fans outside of the conference? it's even better in person. the conference does a great job of marketing ticket packages for the weekend as well. the last few years, it worked out well that valpo's spring break was around the mvc tourney and i got to enjoy some great championship games.
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Post by stlvufan on Mar 13, 2011 12:55:20 GMT -5
Okay stluvufan, were you an English major or a Philosophy major? Very well-written, intelligent response ... awesome stuff to have on this board. I gotta tell you though, we're going to disagree when you say, "There's no way in College Basketball to prove who is the best team". One game at their house, one game at our house. Multiplied by every team in the conference ... I know there's lucky bounces and bad calls and crazy variance from time to time, but home-away times every team in Horizon works for me, on average, to determine who is best team. I won't be disuaded that the mini-playoff of a conference tournaments is wholly unfair and counter-productive to the importance of conference competition, but I very much respect the logic of your impassioned and thoughtful essay. Let me put it this way: if you're going to be really serious about protecting the top 2 seeds, don't invite 3-10 at all. Skip all the way to the 2nd Tuesday and have 1 host 2 for all the marbles. Of course, if you go that far, you should really just take the Ivy League approach and just send the 1 seed (or have a playoff if there's a tie). If you're going to have a tournament at all, then invite everyone, seed them 1 through 10, but make the playing field as level as possible. In other words, decide once and for all what the goal is and then stick to it all the way instead of hedging. P.S., I say Mark Lazerus should beat one particular drum every single year until someone gets it: if you're going to have teams hosting games because they're the higher seed, then don't compromise the home court advantage. Let the PA announcer show favoritism, put the home team student section near the visitor's bench, the whole nine yards. Stop being so two-faced about it.
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