Why no scholarships in football?

[cmb57]

Why does valpo stay in the pioneer league if it wants to up its game in football? Better question may be why doesn't the pioneer league become a scholarship league? IDK but it just seems odd and I have been reading some information saying the patriot league is considering becoming a normal d-fcs scholarship league rather than a d-1 fcs non-scholarship
so why is there even such thing as d-1 non-scholarship
wanna run with the big boys you gotta do what the big boys do

[valpo89]

Valpo chose to go non-scholarship in football in 1993 when the NCAA forced Division I basketball schools to be Division I in all sports. The option was to drop football or for a group of schools unable or unwilling to commit to "big-time" football to get together to form their own "Division I-AAA" league. That's essentially what the Pioneer League is - Division I in name only, to keep its regular Division I status in all other sports - most importantly basketball. Prior to that Valpo was a Division II scholarship program, and it wasn't pretty.

There's a little history lesson for you. Valpo will not change its status in football.

[cmb57]

I understand the history I just dont understand why valpo chooses to continue non-scholarship program if it wants to get good they target similar athletes of d-2 programs and those athletes are interested just the money at d-2 schools is to good

[valpo89]

Well there you go. Valpo's not going to give athletic scholarships for football. They tried in the past, and it didn't work out too well. They can't go Division II, because then ALL sports would have to be dropped from Division I.

And as you stated, VU should go after quality Division II kids. But they're not going to be able to offer football money. VU has to be pretty creative with its football recruiting, finding the right type of kid who can hack it academically, be able to afford to go to school, and also contribute on the field.

The only other option is to drop football. Is that what you're getting at?

[cmb57]

no that is the last thing i want i guess now my question is why valpo is unwilling/unable to commit to "big time" (if thats what you want to call mid major 1-fcs football AKA NEC and Patriot league as well as pioneer league) football
I'm not trying to be hostile at all just searching for asnwers

[vu72]

It's a matter of dollars and cents. To properly run a scholarship program, to be "big time" you need a bunch of players. Maybe forty or fifty scholarships? We seat 5000 at football games. It means, at 40 players, we are funding 40 X 35,000 or 1,400,000. If we bring 4500 fans to six home games at, pick a number, say $7, that's $189,000. doesn't make sense.

Now, on the other hand, if we bring 100 kids in who are paying 35,000 less the cost of running the program, the football programs makes money and we have 100 males who otherwise may not be at Valpo. That pretty much is the deal here.

[cmb57]

That makes sense its is just disappointing to football fans like me
I know of 2 athletes from this year alone (and more from other years) who really enjoyed there visits and the football at pioneer league schools(one was valpo and the other UD) but when a D-2 school came along with cash in hand they couldn't pass it up because they wouldn't get that much $$ from grades and need based grants
its a shame when money deters people from doing what they really want to especially with school
I guess the other thing that gets me is how schools on scholarship and in 1-fcs keep it that way its not like schools like Albany, Duquesne, and Central Connecticut are really packing the stands but it could have to do with the price tag on admission

[valpo89]

cbm57 - I understand you're not trying to be hostile. As 72 stated, it's simple economics. Valpo would NEVER get the fan base built up to make it anything close to even breaking even. A new stadium will not be built. Valpo could never be competitive with, say, a Youngstown State. When Valpo was Division II and actually offered scholarships, it still did not give the full amount allowed (not sure of the numbers - but if 48 full scholarships were the limit, VU gave something like 24 and divided them up). So, they got killed, especially in the Midwest Intercollegiate Football Conference. You might not be old enough to remember Grand Valley State 91, Valpo 0 in the 1989 season (look it up - this isn't a joke). That's an extreme example, but regular 45-0, 52-7 scores happened all the time.

So, it's not really good for a kid who can't afford to go to VU but wants to and has to take money from another school. But that's the way VU has been doing it since 1993.

[cmb57]

Ya, I was only 10 at the time but like I said its just a shame kids have to chose $$ over what makes them happy

[ml]

Football is the second oldest sports program at Valpo. We began playing in 1919. We have a long tradition in football that includes a trip to a bowl game in the 1950's, multiple Indiana Collegiate Conference championships, and 2 PFL championships this decade. We have 2 alumni who played for Super Bowl champions, a quarterback who played for an Arena Bowl winner, multiple All-Americans and multiple Academic All-Americans. Football players form one of the largest alumni groups on campus. Football has been a vital part of our campus culture for a many years and there is no reason that should change.

Competing at the the top level of NCAA FCS football would require 63 scholarships. The math outlined above shows pretty clearly what that would mean in the way of just new scholarship costs not to mention all the expense associated with operating a team with an expanded staff and expanded program needs.

We may lose some kids to D-II schools or even NAIA schools because of scholarships, but at the same time there are others who chose to play in the PFL because it is D-I. We also have a a history of engineering and pre-med students who chose us because of the academic program combined with D-I football.

The PFL allows us to compete with a great group of like minded private schools with quality programs. It allows our players to travel to different parts of the country to compete. There are many talented players in the PFL. It is very entertaining football. It is a very good place for Valpo football.

[milanmiracle]

Jun 18, 2009 20:52:28 GMT -5 ml said:

Competing at the the top level of NCAA FCS football would require 63 scholarships. The math outlined above shows pretty clearly what that would mean in the way of just new scholarship costs not to mention all the expense associated with operating a team with an expanded staff and expanded program needs.

Yes, offering scholarships and funding a football team is expensive, but you do realize that 263 other teams have figured out how to do it.

[78crusader]

I think the PFL is a very good league and is populated by schools just like VU which are strong academically, with a strong history of football.

Milanmiracle points out that 263 other schools offer scholarships or are D1 or are "big time." OK, fine. But how many of those schools have 4,000 kids? Plus I'd be willing to bet a bunch of those schools would be very happy if they could figure out a way to get out of D1 football altogether and go the route that Valpo and other PFL schools have gone.

This may be coming anyway if the Big 10 expands by 3 or 5 schools, as has been rumored. I don't think we are that far away from 4 or 5 "super conferences" in football, leaving the rest of the D1-playing football world to fend for themselves. Don't be surprised if many schools decide the "glamour" of D1 football just isn't worth it.

I like the PFL. It's a perfect fit for VU. It's competitive, made up of good academic schools, and is a conference that, I think, is built to last. I'm glad that Mark LaBarbera feels the same way. Paul

[valpo89]

Wow milan, way to bring back a thread from last June.
Haven't we beaten this to death over the years? Do you think Valpo football could get the fan support of even a Youngstown AND be competitive?
History says no way.

[bbtds]

Apr 14, 2010 21:03:41 GMT -5 valpo89 said:

Wow milan, way to bring back a thread from last June.
Haven't we beaten this to death over the years? Do you think Valpo football could get the fan support of even a Youngstown AND be competitive?
History says no way.

I certainly hope the new coach doesn't think like that. He seems to think that scholarships or not this program can win even against scholarship teams. It's not the money you are given that makes you a better athlete. I agree with Coach Carlson and our AD in his statements above. No, we're not able to win a National Championship but we can go many many more miles if we can get the momentum moving in the right direction. Did Butler's basketball program ever think they couldn't accomplish what they set out to do this year....Never. I think the Crusader football program will eventually whip some of those I-AA football programs that we seem to fear so much right now. Save this thread. This non-scholaship football team at Valpo will someday beat a I-AA scholarship team on the opposing team's field. Mark this date and who said it. It might be 10 to 15 years down the road but believe me it will happen. I believe!!!!

Defeatists. That is all I can say about most Valpo football fans right now.

[vuweathernerd]

Apr 14, 2010 22:30:27 GMT -5 bbtds said:

Defeatists. That is all I can say about most Valpo football fans right now.

can you really blame us after the last few years?