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Post by papa on Nov 28, 2008 15:14:48 GMT -5
 '72: Harvard will lose appx. $9 Billion in endowment funds and VU will lose appx. $50 million. TOUGH! If you recall,during Harre's first few years at the helm Valpo had to cut faculty,staff and programs in order to meet its budget. Enrollment also sharply declined. Now, we are faced with similar problems on a magnified basis. So, do we cut faculty,staff and programs in order to get our university in order, or do we drop non-essentials like football in order to save a few $$$? I'm glad I'm not making this decision but I'm sure we will do the right thing. And we thought Obama had problems. Hang in there JJ ,things are going to be ok ;D ;D ;D You see ,I'm more of a "can do" guy ,try it ,you'll like it  |
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Post by papa on Nov 30, 2008 9:06:57 GMT -5
I doubt Valpo has ever won a national champioship ,these two schools have won many & been to final 4-8 many more times. In NCAA wrestling circles these schools are more well known than Valpo in basketball. I think both are also into round 2 of NCAA fb d-3 playoffs. Not promoting either over Valpo ,but be careful of what you say. Um, have those schools ever had a sporting event televised nationally? td's point wasn't about comparing achievements, it was about comparing exposure. I see Wartburg won 2nd playoff game yeaterday vs.Monmouth ,they play Wisconsin-Whitewater. If they could someway win 2 more they could get a game on espn in finals-long shot , but the only Lutheran survivor. |
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Post by valporun on Nov 30, 2008 14:14:16 GMT -5
I suppose that all depends on just how good the UW-Whitewater Warhawks are this season. The Warhawks, after all, are the defending champions for Division III football, plus Mount Union needs to be paid attention anyway, as they are always the team to beat nationally, at least at the D-III level.
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Post by vu72 on Dec 1, 2008 14:03:00 GMT -5
Huh - I would have guessed St. Olaf to be better known nationally than Valpo. St. Olaf's choir is quite famous, and they're pretty good academically. Valpo is decent academically, and has a fair basketball team (with one very famous season). I don't think our football team has much of anything to do with our reputation. Probably it's important to some alumni and (fewer?) students. But, probably I'm prejudiced - football's not really my sport. I think the point of all this thread basicly goes to which Lutheran school is best known and thus has a more valuable degree. As some of you know by now I'm a fan of statistics so let's take a look at some and for this purpose I'm comparing Wartburg, St. Olaf, Augsburg and Valpo as they are the shools mentioned in this thread. Endowment is obviously very important as it gives the school the ability to pay faculty and support scholarships for students. Endowment stats published by US News in their most recent addition show: St. Olaf 318 million Valpo 193 million Wartburg 48 million Augsburg 32 million. I'm guessing Valpo is closing the gap given the emphasis on this point during the current fund drive. Point two is student diversity in terms of where they come from as having alumni throughout the country and the world is a big advantage in terms of name recognition. Augsburg doesn't publish these facts (at least I couldn't find any) which tells me most of their students are from Minnesota (only 1000 live on campus.) Wartburg says that students come from 27 states and 40 foreign countries. St. Olaf says that students come from 43 states and 19 foreign countires Valpo has students from every state and over 55 foreign countries. In terms of US News rankings (I think the best known, most followed) Valpo has been ranked in the top three Master's level school, in the Midwest, for the last 20 years. Augsburg is ranked 25th. Wartburg is considered a liberal arts school as is St. Olaf. Wartburg is also considered a regional school and is ranked in the third tier of such rankings--not very good. St. Olaf is ranked 47 among National liberal arts colleges. This puts them up against the Wellesleys of the world--very good rank. One of the biggest differences is tha Valpo is a university and the others are colleges. This means that Valpo has separate colleges for profesisonal studies including Business, Engineering and Nursing. The others just have departments with fewer full time faculty and less cross field interaction. Each of Valpo's colleges has a chapter of the appropriate honor society. In liberal arts that is Phi Beta Kappa. I know Augsburg and St. Olaf have PBK chapters, don't know about Wartburg. Valpo is one of only two colleges in Indiana that has all four honor society memberships. I think the other is Purdue. This is a big deal for new students as only about 200 schools nationally have PBK chapters for example. Another Valpo advantage from a name recognition standpoint is the fact that we have a highly respected law school. This adds to high level people in a variety of industries as well as having graduates running for things like the govenor of Indiana! Valpo also is one of only 16 colleges throughout America with a Confucius Institute and the only faith based college or university. This is funded by the Chinese government and obviously helps with international training and jobs let alone bring Chinese students to Valpo. Athletically Valpo and Wagner are the only two Lutheran schools playing D1. Most of the others are D3 but some are D2. The others in question here are D3. So which has the higher value degree? Well Valpo has more students from more places, the second highest endowment among Lutheran schools, D1 athletics and professional colleges of the highest level. I rest my case. Oh, and as for St. Olaf's choir--I'll admit they are better known but Valpo's Choral will be broadcast across the country with their Christmas concert as well. OK, if you want to study music, St. Olaf may be the better choice!! Finally, which college has put the most into new facilities in the last ten years or so. Granted Wartburg has a new fieldhouse, with help from the community, but Valpo has built a new Center for the Arts, Library and now Union with alumni dollars only. Says alot about the alumni's feelings about the value of their degree. |
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Post by okinawatyphoon on Dec 1, 2008 16:42:11 GMT -5
I too am a fan of statistics...great work 72.
Just one thing I should mention, is that Valpo's endowment is well over $200 million now ("now" meaning before this economic trouble). I can't remember the exact place I saw it, but it had something to do with Harre's legacy. According to his legacy website, it is "approximately $200 million", but I could have sworn that I read it was over $200 million on some other university website. Either way, it has increased quite a bit which can only help.
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Post by 78crusader on Dec 1, 2008 21:56:04 GMT -5
While these are good points, VU72, I don't think the average student gives VU a lot of props for having a Confucius Institute (which to me, at first glance, seems somehow inconsistent with the values of a Christian university -- am I the only person who has had this thought?).
And I don't think most kids -- the operative word here being "most" -- give a whole lot of thought as to whether VU is D-I or D-III. I think what kids care about are good academics and good facilities, plus a safe environment and a pleasing, attractive campus setting. If they care about sports, I think they simply want, again, good facilities, and maybe some decent, competitive teams.
Paul
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Post by vu72 on Dec 1, 2008 22:48:08 GMT -5
While these are good points, VU72, I don't think the average student gives VU a lot of props for having a Confucius Institute (which to me, at first glance, seems somehow inconsistent with the values of a Christian university -- am I the only person who has had this thought?). And I don't think most kids -- the operative word here being "most" -- give a whole lot of thought as to whether VU is D-I or D-III. I think what kids care about are good academics and good facilities, plus a safe environment and a pleasing, attractive campus setting. If they care about sports, I think they simply want, again, good facilities, and maybe some decent, competitive teams. Paul My point on the Confucius Institute has to do with name recognition as well as future jobs opportunities in a global world. Clearly those students wanting an international business major, for example, would find this institute a deal changer. In the greater scheme of things, name recognition, as I've pointed out before, can make a difference in degree value. As for athletics, I'll let our student posters chime in on this one. To me, athletic events, and the excitment associated therewith, constitute a big part of the college experience. I'm sure you remember games at Hilltop against teams like Butler and Evansville. Anyone at the Butler game last year will never forget it. In a world of two equals academically, things like athletics can make the difference. |
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Post by 78crusader on Dec 2, 2008 9:05:52 GMT -5
My point exactly. It didn't matter, to me anyway, whether the games were against D-III opponents. What mattered to me was that we were playing good competition, against other Indiana schools. I think most students, and again I use the word "most," like to see good competition. It doesn't have to be against D-I teams. I'm probably the only person associated with VU who feels this way, but I'd much rather watch VU play, for instance, Wheaton, or Evansville, or St. Olaf, or Butler, in basketball rather than UNC. That game is simply not going to be competitive and is likely to be embarrassing to the bb program and the university. Sorry, that's just the way I feel about it. Paul
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Post by jj on Dec 2, 2008 13:08:50 GMT -5
Say Crusader '78,you make some excellent points. After UNC's beating of UNC-Ashville by 68 pts.(topping the 57 pt. spread against CSU in 05-06),I'm beginning to wonder if VU can keep the point spread to 40 or below. Hell, UNC didn't play their All-American against Ashville.SO, my prediction: UNC by 45+. Book it! ALSO, the NYT ran an article today extoling the virtue and rise of "Club Sports" at the collegiate level. This is not"intermural but expertly organized,highly skilled teams that often belong to regional conferences and play for a national championship." Why not VU too? |
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Post by papa on Dec 2, 2008 14:19:45 GMT -5
To me the it is not so much if Valpo is D-1 or D-3 [ I think they should stay d-1],but it is about putting more competitive teams on the field.
If we are going to have a sport ,it should be competitive & in order to do this Valpo will in my view have to make a little more of a commitment to athletics ,in the way of facilities ,more coaches ,scholarships ,etc.
Valpo is blessed with some great coaches & I wonder how much better they might be with a little more support in the areas mentioned.It's kind of like the University wants all the sports ,but doesn't want to spend much on them.
Many of the sports like CC ,VB ,soccer ,SB ,baseball ,are sports that a mid-major can be competitive & actually ranked in the top 25 ,unlike Football & Basketball. That said ,we still need to support them from a budget standpoint.
Club sports are a big thing at many colleges ,but are usually in addition to the regular athletic programs & also offer fringe sports. I have a grandson that gos to a large school in Texas , they offer soccer ,cycling ,Rugby ,rowing ,hockey & lacrosse as club sports. They don't have these sports as d-1 except for woman's soccer.I think Valpo's only problem here would be facilities for these sports to practice & play ,unless they worked something out with the city.
A very wise president of a college once told me that "while academics are the main purpose of a college ,ATHLETICS ARE YOUR FOOT PRINT."
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Post by vuweathernerd on Dec 3, 2008 0:20:10 GMT -5
a little behind the times jj. club sports have already made their appearance on campus. we have club teams for men's and women's soccer, and i believe our ultimate frisbee team is considered part of a club league. dropping ncaa football in favor of a club team may not be a bad idea....certainly not the least extreme thing you've ever suggested.
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Post by jj on Dec 3, 2008 13:45:05 GMT -5
The NYT reported today (12/3) that Harvard has lost $8 billion dollars (27.5%) from its endowment fund. Any reports on Valpo's losses?
Additionally, USC (S.Carolina) has been granted rights to establish a Confusious Institute. I guess the bloom is off the orange tree. Let's play ball.
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Post by vuweathernerd on Dec 3, 2008 14:01:10 GMT -5
heckler's email to the students didn't give an amount, but it used the word "significant." my guess would be in the tens of millions of dollars.
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Post by vu72 on Dec 3, 2008 14:13:34 GMT -5
The NYT reported today (12/3) that Harvard has lost $8 billion dollars (27.5%) from its endowment fund. Any reports on Valpo's losses? Additionally, USC (S.Carolina) has been granted rights to establish a Confusious Institute. I guess the bloom is off the orange tree. Let's play ball. Wow! So now Valpo is one of seventeen schools with Confucius Institutes. And I thought we were in a very select company! As for the losses, if we are down 25-30% then we're talking about 50-60 million. Maybe less as a significant chunk (due to the ongoing fund drive) may have come in nearer the bottom than the top. |
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'72: Harvard will lose appx. $9 Billion in endowment funds and VU will lose appx. $50 million. TOUGH! If you recall,during Harre's first few years at the helm Valpo had to cut faculty,staff and programs in order to meet its budget. Enrollment also sharply declined. Now, we are faced with similar problems on a magnified basis. 
