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Post by jj on Aug 28, 2009 14:45:56 GMT -5
The 2010 Edition of U.S.NEWS "America's Best Colleges" has ranked Valpo as the #5 college in the MW Master's level category,a drop of two places from last year. Most depressing though is that both Butler and Drake have moved ahead of Valpo with Butler being listed as #2. Oh My God! Part of the problem seems to be our watering down of admission standards whereby Butler and Drake have an advantage over Valpo in the SAT/ACT 25th-75 percentile ratings. Butler is 25-29, Drake 24-29 and Valpo 22-28. Ouch. What has happened to Dear Ole Valpo? Our athletics,for the most part STINK and now our scholastic ranking is in free fall. Butler reigns and Valpo's in pain. Please explain.
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Post by 78crusader on Aug 28, 2009 15:46:25 GMT -5
VU was ranked as low as #5 one other time, maybe 7-8 years ago; then we moved back up. I'm hoping history repeats itself. Of more concern is the 22-28 ACT range. If memory serves, we were at 23-29 several years ago, so an argument could be made that our admission standards have been relaxed. (To those who would say that one point in either direction is not a big deal, I say it is: 80% of all kids score between 21 and 31, so you are really only dealing with a 10-point swing to begin with, in most cases.) I would maintain our student body is not up to par from an academic standpoint with our faculty. In other words, a faculty with VU's reputation should be getting better students. I would also maintain that our admissions policy, which seems to be "let's allow in just about everyone who applies, and with our academic reputation and faith-based tradition, we are bound to get our fair share of smart kids and Lutheran kids," isn't working very well. I think we should be MORE selective instead of less so. Being less selective cheapens the quality and attractiveness of a VU education, it seems to me. And I don't understand our recent emphasis on getting more international students. I would rather emphasize getting kids from non-denominational Christian high schools (of which there are many in the midwest). These are kids who overall are conservative and whose ACTs are generally high. Plus, evangelical Christians are just about the only growing segment of Christians out there; why not try to get more of these kids? Believe me, Calvin and Wheaton and Taylor are getting them. If you think that we're not getting beat by these schools in terms of numbers or quality, then take a look at the profiles of their incoming freshmen. I know for a fact that Wheaton's freshman enrollment is up by 20% this year and their average ACT is much, much higher than VU's (a kid I know got put on the wait list, and ultimately was not accepted, with a 28). And Calvin has 4,000 kids. How did this happen? I'll bet 25 years ago Calvin did not have more than 2,000 students, tops. I've also heard that Calvin is beating out VU for Lutheran kids from the Ft. Wayne area. If VU can't get Lutherans from Ft. Wayne to come here, then we have some problems. There are some folks on this board who work with admissions. If I'm wrong about this, then call me out. But if not, then I think that's a sign of a problem, that we can't get the kids that traditionally have come here. I would rather be more well known in, for example, Cincinnati or Grand Rapids or Springfield than New Delhi or Tehran. I realize that just about everyone on this board will disagree with some or all of the above. VU is doing many, many good things. But I don't think "business as usual" is going to cut it in terms of getting good kids to come here. Paul
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Post by crusaderpride on Aug 28, 2009 19:52:18 GMT -5
First of all, I completely agree that admission standards are too lax. We should not be letting in 94% of applications.
Secondly, however, a note to 78crusader. Never have I seen such a recipe for disaster in my life (other than maybe the Cheney/Palin philosophy). You constantly hound on the admission of international students, instead favoring "conservatives" and "evangelical christians". Valpo thrives because of it's Lutheran heritage, yes! But it also thrives because of diversity! Many international students are in fact Christian and those that aren't still contribute greatly to the faith life at Valpo.
Just like our diverse students learn a lot from each other, it would serve you well to grow your tolerance of others. You don't have to be Christian to make Valpo a great place. You don't have to be conservative, either. A great university pulls from many different areas while still fostering their founding principles.
I agree admissions needs to change, but I think the growing diversity of our campus is only a positive thing.
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Post by vu72 on Aug 30, 2009 13:06:42 GMT -5
VU was ranked as low as #5 one other time, maybe 7-8 years ago; then we moved back up. I'm hoping history repeats itself. Of more concern is the 22-28 ACT range. If memory serves, we were at 23-29 several years ago, so an argument could be made that our admission standards have been relaxed. (To those who would say that one point in either direction is not a big deal, I say it is: 80% of all kids score between 21 and 31, so you are really only dealing with a 10-point swing to begin with, in most cases.) I would maintain our student body is not up to par from an academic standpoint with our faculty. In other words, a faculty with VU's reputation should be getting better students. I would also maintain that our admissions policy, which seems to be "let's allow in just about everyone who applies, and with our academic reputation and faith-based tradition, we are bound to get our fair share of smart kids and Lutheran kids," isn't working very well. I think we should be MORE selective instead of less so. Being less selective cheapens the quality and attractiveness of a VU education, it seems to me. And I don't understand our recent emphasis on getting more international students. I would rather emphasize getting kids from non-denominational Christian high schools (of which there are many in the midwest). These are kids who overall are conservative and whose ACTs are generally high. Plus, evangelical Christians are just about the only growing segment of Christians out there; why not try to get more of these kids? Believe me, Calvin and Wheaton and Taylor are getting them. If you think that we're not getting beat by these schools in terms of numbers or quality, then take a look at the profiles of their incoming freshmen. I know for a fact that Wheaton's freshman enrollment is up by 20% this year and their average ACT is much, much higher than VU's (a kid I know got put on the wait list, and ultimately was not accepted, with a 28). And Calvin has 4,000 kids. How did this happen? I'll bet 25 years ago Calvin did not have more than 2,000 students, tops. I've also heard that Calvin is beating out VU for Lutheran kids from the Ft. Wayne area. If VU can't get Lutherans from Ft. Wayne to come here, then we have some problems. There are some folks on this board who work with admissions. If I'm wrong about this, then call me out. But if not, then I think that's a sign of a problem, that we can't get the kids that traditionally have come here. I would rather be more well known in, for example, Cincinnati or Grand Rapids or Springfield than New Delhi or Tehran. I realize that just about everyone on this board will disagree with some or all of the above. VU is doing many, many good things. But I don't think "business as usual" is going to cut it in terms of getting good kids to come here. Paul Well, I'll start out by saying that jj's comments are once again to stupid to generate a response. But you '78, raise some interesting issues. The one that is most interesting is the idea that our faculty talent now is better than the level of new students and that accordingly we should raise our admission standards. I think raising the admission standards, based, on arbitrary numbers, like SAT or ACT scores, is a bad and unnecessary idea. I may be all to sensitive to this notion as I did have decent SAT numbers was in general not a great student. Nonetheless, I was admitted and will be eternally grateful for my Valpo education. I think the better approach is to bring in kids based on a combination of factors, as is currently the case. The idea that our students aren't measuring up to the faculty is difficult to defend when our graduation rates, and retention rates, are so high. If the kids couldn't measure up, then how are they staying and graduating. Instead, we are allowing some students who might be turned down by other similar institutions in to Valpo, and gaining graduates who are of great character and can spread the Valpo experience. Arbitrary number guidelines is a very bad idea.
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Post by agibson on Aug 31, 2009 5:35:01 GMT -5
I'll stay away from the comments regretting our (modest) emphasis on international students and suggesting that we target evangelicals. If I've not commented on them in detail before, I'll leave it to another day.
One might reasonably argue that we should try to be attracting more applications, and more highly qualified applicants. Valpo has a pretty good student body, but does accept a rather high percentage of applicants.
I don't know how you achieve these goals. A more deliberate, and prolific marketing campaigns? More aggressive marketing at college fairs? More ads in the Lutheran?
Are certain programs more attractive than others? Should the others be targeted for improvements?
How do you improve the reputation, and the applicant pool, of a university? Not an easy process, especially not if you're hoping for a quick turnaround. The easier answer is you do it slowly. By attracting and supporting quality faculty. By doing an excellent job educating the students. By being visible nationally: academically, athletically, and in other ways.
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Post by agibson on Aug 31, 2009 5:42:25 GMT -5
As much as everyone loves to hate beauty contests like the US News scores, it does hurt to slip in the rankings. Valpo was very happy to advertise their position when they were at/near the top. Top 5's not bad, but I bet that #1 attracted some applications, and some students.
Creighton takes top honors overall and for best value, this year.
We still beat Butler (#2 overall), Drake, and Xavier (tied 3rd overall) in best value where we're third. Evansville, 10th overall, sneaks ahead of us to claim the 2nd place "best value" spot. Their tuition's a bit lower to begin with, and they seem to give a bit more aid (if we give aid to a few percent more students, they give larger discounts). 10th to 2nd still seems like a big jump! Not sure if they give the details of their overall rankings - maybe the top 10 spots aren't widely separated.
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Post by vu72 on Sept 7, 2009 11:58:32 GMT -5
Apparently President Heckler is listening! He has appointed a Vice President of Enrollment and a Vice President of integrated marketing. Branding will be a big part of the new structure. Here is the announcement: www.valpo.edu/news/news.php?releaseId=4152
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Post by okinawatyphoon on Sept 7, 2009 14:59:09 GMT -5
Yes, big things are happening on the reorganization front. I think we are in store for big changes in the next few years.
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Post by 78crusader on Sept 7, 2009 15:01:30 GMT -5
Can you provide us with some hints, Okinawa? Thanks, Paul
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Post by okinawatyphoon on Sept 7, 2009 15:09:30 GMT -5
Unfortunately, I can't tell you much more than you already know. Just know that the administration is really looking to raise Valpo's profile, and they are taking the correct steps to do that.
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Post by vu72 on Sept 8, 2009 8:17:30 GMT -5
Unfortunately, I can't tell you much more than you already know. Just know that the administration is really looking to raise Valpo's profile, and they are taking the correct steps to do that. So, would you guess us athletic fans will be pleased??
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Post by jj on Sept 8, 2009 8:41:41 GMT -5
A good way to begin our integrated marketing plan for people living in the saltwater states would be to promote the football game between Valpo and Marist. Hell, IU is going to be playing a home football game in the Meadows Lands against Penn State in order to attract more saltwater kids to attend school in one of the freshwater states,in this case Indiana. Valpo didn't fare to well against Yale in New Haven (nor in Chicago),but in Marist we have a 10-1 shot to win a game. Entice fans and prospective students to the game by offering a free meal at the nearby Culinary Institute of America and then have a presentation on the benefits of attending VU. SURE!. With the way Valpo plays football,it would be a downright waste of money to promote Valpo there. Anyway,who would want to see Valpo play Marist. I wouldn't.
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Post by valpo04 on Sept 8, 2009 10:20:06 GMT -5
A good way to begin our integrated marketing plan for people living in the saltwater states would be to promote the football game between Valpo and Marist. Anyway,who would want to see Valpo play Marist. I wouldn't.
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Post by jj on Sept 8, 2009 10:32:50 GMT -5
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Post by vu72 on Sept 8, 2009 10:36:14 GMT -5
I was thinking the same thing as 04. jj is starting (continueing) to talk in circles!!
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