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Post by 89rabbit on Aug 20, 2005 10:09:15 GMT -5
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Post by valpo04 on Jan 26, 2006 5:22:37 GMT -5
I bumped this back up, its a pretty cool map. Thanks for the link rabbit!
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Post by wh on Jan 26, 2006 8:59:00 GMT -5
A picture's worth a thousand words! Look at the D-1 regional competition Valpo has for recruiting compared to say Oral Roberts out in Oklahoma. It might help explain why ORU were able to get a high quality player like Caleb Green, a state high school player of the year. Other than Bryce, it would be hard to imagine Valpo ever landing Indiana's Mr. Basketball. Good post, rabbit!
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Post by valpotentate on Jan 26, 2006 9:27:09 GMT -5
A picture's worth a thousand words! Look at the D-1 regional competition Valpo has for recruiting compared to say Oral Roberts out in Oklahoma. It might help explain why ORU were able to get a high quality player like Caleb Green, a state high school player of the year. Other than Bryce, it would be hard to imagine Valpo ever landing Indiana's Mr. Basketball. Good post, rabbit! Excellent point. While we all know this intellectually this site really hammers the point home. Nice find 89rabbit. |
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Post by crusaderguy08 on Jan 26, 2006 14:53:23 GMT -5
A picture's worth a thousand words! Look at the D-1 regional competition Valpo has for recruiting compared to say Oral Roberts out in Oklahoma. It might help explain why ORU were able to get a high quality player like Caleb Green, a state high school player of the year. Other than Bryce, it would be hard to imagine Valpo ever landing Indiana's Mr. Basketball. Good post, rabbit! Uh, wasn't Kenny a Mr. Basketball? |
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Post by walldozer on Jan 26, 2006 16:10:21 GMT -5
I may be wrong, but I do not think Kenny was a Mr. Basketball for IN. He was a finalist, but not Mr. Basketball. If I am not mistaken, I think that Seth Coclasure was a finalist as well.
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Post by wh on Jan 26, 2006 17:18:48 GMT -5
Sean May of North Carolina fame was Mr. Basketball in '02. As I recall, Seth was either 2nd or 3rd team all-state and a member of the IN HS All-Star team. Justin Gage from Indianapolis Pike was Mr. Basketball in '03. Again, as I recall Kenny was either 1st or 2nd team all-state (1st I think) and a member of the IN HS All-Star team.
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Post by 89rabbit on Jan 28, 2006 14:04:52 GMT -5
You guys are welcome. I buddy of mine put that together. He is a huge basketball fan and a bigger Jackrabbit fan. Glad you liked it.
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nkvu
Bench Warmer
Posts: 202 
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Post by nkvu on Jan 28, 2006 16:08:53 GMT -5
The 2003 Indiana Mr. Basketball was Justin Cage who now plays for Xavier.
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Post by vcboys2000 on Jan 28, 2006 16:43:07 GMT -5
Using Green as an example to say that we have an edge because of fewer in state D-1 schools is a faulty argument. When Caleb Green was in high school, he was not considered to be top notch talent by any of the in-state schools or out of state schools. Caleb was a late bloomer that they all initially considered to be "not athletic enough for his position at the next level". He was passed on by every D-1 school in state and most out of state schools. The only reason he won Oklahoma Player of the Year honors was because he worked hard, had a great high school coach, and his team won the public high school state title his senior year. Nobody knew the type of player he would develop into. If they did he wouldn't be at ORU now.
Prep basketball in the country now allows players that are considered good enough to not have to be limited or constrained to the top schools in their state. Because of national aau tournaments, recruiting websites and analyst, and ranking systems it is easy for a player that is considered to be top talent to be recognized and have offers from many different schools all over the country. Other players that are just mediocre talent are left to go with the options provided by their high school coaches connections or local colleges that are aware of their ability.
My argument is that the problem here lies with the evaluators of talent. We didn't get Green because he was this great player that ran out of options. We got him because nobody else thought he was good enough. ORU has a reputation in the area for going after players that are considered to be too short (ken tutt from Texas), or not athletic enough (caleb green), or not strong enough (jb). Our point guard next year was pretty much 'released' by his former D-1 team because was not scoring enough, and you'll get to see how good he is next year. Compared to most states, we don't have a lot of D-1 schools, but that alone is not enough to suggest that we have an edge in recruiting. Believe me, if the player is 'good enough' other states will come knocking.*
*For proof of this statement look at rival.com's list of top oklahoma players and where they are heading for college. I believe you will find only 2 staying in state, and they are not coming to ORU.
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Post by wh on Jan 28, 2006 18:19:01 GMT -5
You articulate your argument well, vcboy2000, but I think my logic about advantage-ORU still prevails. Take everything you said and make one change - move ORU's campus to Valparaiso, IN. Green is now a local kid from Valpo who has been overlooked by the IU's, Purdue's, Notre Dame's, Depaul's, Illinois, etc., etc., of the D-1 major world. ORU sees him as a diamond in the rough and tries to entice him to stay home (in Valpo) and play locally. At ORU located in Valpo, mid-major recruiters from IPFW, Ball State, Butler, Evansville, Indiana State, IUPUI, UIC and Loyola all come knocking on the Green family door. ORU may still have the edge through superior recruiting techniques, analyzing potential, and everything else you said, but the fact remains that you would be in direct competition with many more mid-majors here than there. In-state and regional mid-major recruiting in this area is dog-eat-dog - every year. Advantage - ORU (at Tulsa).
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Post by vcboys2000 on Jan 29, 2006 23:20:57 GMT -5
Wh, i can see your side of the argument. My statements were based on the premise that those other D-1 schools (high level or mid-major) would have passed over Green because of a perceived lack of ability. Ultimatum: I don't think that many people (all of the other programs in indiana) could be that blind.  |
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Post by Valpower on Jan 29, 2006 23:41:42 GMT -5
You articulate your argument well, vcboy2000, but I think my logic about advantage-ORU still prevails. Take everything you said and make one change - move ORU's campus to Valparaiso, IN. Green is now a local kid from Valpo who has been overlooked by the IU's, Purdue's, Notre Dame's, Depaul's, Illinois, etc., etc., of the D-1 major world. ORU sees him as a diamond in the rough and tries to entice him to stay home (in Valpo) and play locally. At ORU located in Valpo, mid-major recruiters from IPFW, Ball State, Butler, Evansville, Indiana State, IUPUI, UIC and Loyola all come knocking on the Green family door. ORU may still have the edge through superior recruiting techniques, analyzing potential, and everything else you said, but the fact remains that you would be in direct competition with many more mid-majors here than there. In-state and regional mid-major recruiting in this area is dog-eat-dog - every year. Advantage - ORU (at Tulsa). Wh, I'm not sure if your argument necessarily holds water. The number of schools evaluating the talent in a particular region is probably proportional to the amount of talent available and is likely related to population. There may be fewer universities in ORU's neck of the woods, but there are likely fewer high schools, as well. The smaller schools are still fighting for scraps. |
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Post by wh on Jan 30, 2006 2:51:02 GMT -5
Don't confuse me with the facts, Valpower! I always hate it when people do that (LOL)! You make a good point...
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