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Post by agibson on May 6, 2010 9:43:39 GMT -5
The new "Politics" category might kill the visibility of this note, but I'll try it anyhow.
As I mentioned in another thread, I think the diverse readership of this message board could make for an interesting place to actually talk about some issues. The Arizona legislation and surrounding issues are one example.
So, what do you think about the Arizona legislation?
I'm not going to come right out sand say "no quotes", but, I'm certainly more interested in your own words and ideas.
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Post by rlh on May 6, 2010 15:48:06 GMT -5
While I empathize with the thought of illegal immigrants taking jobs, etc.....I think this type of law opens up an pandora's box of trouble. It would be too easy for authorities to decide who should and who should not be stopped. I think the law is dangerous and am hopeful that it will be modified and changed quickly
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Post by valporun on May 6, 2010 16:07:35 GMT -5
rlh, I agree with you. I'm afraid what we'll probably see happen is this bill, as written, will become a dangerous law that will then become amended to accommodate the hoped intention of the law, before it is repealed after Governor Brewer is out of office?
I hope I'm wrong that this bill becomes law, but Arizona wants to pass it, which will recklessly endanger some of the economy in Arizona, like the professional sports aspect. Many baseball players are afraid of demotion or rehab to extended spring training because of how people are trying to enforce this bill before it has been voted on. A major impact of this might be seen after the first-year player draft in June, when so many of the younger international players will be assigned to Arizona for lower rookie level short-season play this summer, or when Arizona Fall League play comes in November. The Phoenix Suns may also see a major impact from this when they go to the draft in June, or when they are trying to make valuable trades to make their team better next season.
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Post by leftcoast on May 6, 2010 16:13:49 GMT -5
rlh, I agree with you. I'm afraid what we'll probably see happen is this bill, as written, will become a dangerous law that will then become amended to accommodate the hoped intention of the law, before it is repealed after Governor Brewer is out of office? I hope I'm wrong that this bill becomes law, but Arizona wants to pass it, which will recklessly endanger some of the economy in Arizona, like the professional sports aspect. Many baseball players are afraid of demotion or rehab to extended spring training because of how people are trying to enforce this bill before it has been voted on. A major impact of this might be seen after the first-year player draft in June, when so many of the younger international players will be assigned to Arizona for lower rookie level short-season play this summer, or when Arizona Fall League play comes in November. The Phoenix Suns may also see a major impact from this when they go to the draft in June, or when they are trying to make valuable trades to make their team better next season. |
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Post by valporun on May 6, 2010 17:38:57 GMT -5
rlh, I agree with you. I'm afraid what we'll probably see happen is this bill, as written, will become a dangerous law that will then become amended to accommodate the hoped intention of the law, before it is repealed after Governor Brewer is out of office? I hope I'm wrong that this bill becomes law, but Arizona wants to pass it, which will recklessly endanger some of the economy in Arizona, like the professional sports aspect. Many baseball players are afraid of demotion or rehab to extended spring training because of how people are trying to enforce this bill before it has been voted on. A major impact of this might be seen after the first-year player draft in June, when so many of the younger international players will be assigned to Arizona for lower rookie level short-season play this summer, or when Arizona Fall League play comes in November. The Phoenix Suns may also see a major impact from this when they go to the draft in June, or when they are trying to make valuable trades to make their team better next season. leftcoast, did you have anything to say about this, or were you just going to highlight what I said for some reason? I mean I'm just pointing out an aspect of this issue that I'm hearing a lot about, not saying that it is a main problem of this, but it is something that will take a hit from this bill becoming law. |
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Post by milwvu04 on May 6, 2010 19:03:45 GMT -5
The bill is definitely doing the job of restarting the debate. The problem is that the Federal government has been too slow on the issue, with Obama, with Bush, and going back further. With laws how there are, illegals are treated far better than those who want to enter and work legally. I don't think we need to start rounding up all illegals and forcing them out. There are plenty of illegals who are working hard for a living and cause no trouble. However, if you are committing other crimes and it comes up that you are illegal, I think that needs to be taken into account. I don't think it is any fault of businesses hiring cheap labor either. Some will say illegals are taking 'American' jobs. No, they're not. If we keep making it difficult on businesses, they'll simply send the jobs overseas. What I don't get is why legal immigrants continue to support those who are illegal. They took the time and effort to follow the system, so why support those who don't.  |
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Post by granny on May 6, 2010 19:27:23 GMT -5
Secure the border, secure the border, secure the border!!!
Must do that first before anything else can be done.
After secured we can come up with path to citizenship. If you are a here illegal & have committed a crime while here....you go home today.
It is our federal govs duty to secure the border.
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Post by agibson on May 7, 2010 5:10:11 GMT -5
Granny - it sounds like you want to prevent future illegal immigration, but not necessarily to go out of our way to kick out existing illegal immigrants?
An interesting compromise - I might be able to get behind that.
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Post by agibson on May 7, 2010 8:38:02 GMT -5
Wait, I had no idea! This bill isn't yet the law?
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Post by valpo04 on May 7, 2010 9:20:59 GMT -5
I don't think it is any fault of businesses hiring cheap labor either. Some will say illegals are taking 'American' jobs. No, they're not. If we keep making it difficult on businesses, they'll simply send the jobs overseas. I don't agree with this. Most companies that hire illegals aren't hiring them for jobs that can be shipped overseas. They are mostly hiring them to be bus boys, landscapers, etc. Because they can hire them at less than minimum wage, there should also be a humanitarian outcry over this. We recently raised the minimum wage, yet companies can go get an illegal Mexican to perform manual labor for half of that. |
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Post by granny on May 7, 2010 11:59:39 GMT -5
Let me see if I can add a little reality to this jobs discussion.
Since I retired & for 17 years I have been running a little business that involves selling fruit for fruit growers in the Northwest.
The crops are picked by mostly immigrants. the growers have tried in every way possible to get others to pick them to no avail. it has little to do with money, but rather how hard the work is. They are not paid an hourly salary, but rather by the # containers they pick,believe me many of them make very good money & are fast They work hard & long hours.
They are willing to do this for a season that lasts a few weeks & than move on to another crop or state. Many fruits are still hand picked & it is very hard work, and you have to be good at it.
The growers have told me stories of hiring college kids or people through ads & many don't even last the day.
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Post by valporun on May 7, 2010 12:53:57 GMT -5
Let me see if I can add a little reality to this jobs discussion. Since I retired & for 17 years I have been running a little business that involves selling fruit for fruit growers in the Northwest. The crops are picked by mostly immigrants. the growers have tried in every way possible to get others to pick them to no avail. it has little to do with money, but rather how hard the work is. They are not paid an hourly salary, but rather by the # containers they pick,believe me many of them make very good money & are fast They work hard & long hours. They are willing to do this for a season that lasts a few weeks & than move on to another crop or state. Many fruits are still hand picked & it is very hard work, and you have to be good at it. The growers have told me stories of hiring college kids or people through ads & many don't even last the day. It's all a sign of "pay me based on what the law says you have to, not by what I do". Too many people don't understand the concept of "piecemeal". I hadn't heard of this idea before, but I think its a good concept that has worked in many decades and jobs. Most people today want to be able to say, "I make so much money per hour, and bring home so much per week". Its the idea of budgeting based on what your means are. Most Americans want that because they are seeing all the "wants" before the "needs". The piecemeal jobs are great for immigrants because they mostly just want to be working, so they can see what kind of promise or success is here. Those of us who are American-born, we want it now, not have to work for it or show that we can do the work. We just want to show what we've done and have the paycheck that proves what we've done. |
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Post by granny on May 7, 2010 18:43:55 GMT -5
Ill always remember 1 year I dropped out of college for a semester & worked 2 jobs,one in construction during the day & one at a plant from 11pm-7am. I run this machine that formed metal for refrigerator shelves & I got paid so much per piece. it took me about 1 day to figure out that I could run enough pcs. to make $8-9 PER HOUR[THIS IS IN THE EARLY 60'S], about the 2nd day of making $8 per hour, this BIG OLD BURLY guy stopped by my machine & told me to slow down to where I was making about $3 PER HOUR. It was very easy for me to catch on, so I spent 1/2 my days slowing my self down,but I did have a job.
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