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Post by CO_VU_Fan on Oct 18, 2010 10:48:17 GMT -5
Is there a lonesome polecat in the future?!?!?!!?!?
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Post by sliman on Oct 18, 2010 12:58:09 GMT -5
To describe as "bums" the intelligent, hard-working young men who met admission standards for Valpo is way off base. Call them poor athletes if you wish, but they are far from being bums! I've talked to several of them and they're fine young men who want to succeed on the football field as well as elsewhere. They're frustrated, but not ready to jump ship.
I suspect everyone agrees that the current football situation is an embarrassment, including the coach and his staff. It was embarrassing last year as well, so we knew the talent level probably was not where it should be. The continued lack of success clearly has hurt whatever confidence may have existed; you can see it when the enthusiasm of a good VU play is quickly erased by a poor one. I'm as impatient as most fans, but with less than a season of new leadership under our belts, I think we're being a bit harsh on everyone.
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vudad
Bench Warmer
Posts: 129
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Post by vudad on Oct 18, 2010 13:02:10 GMT -5
Agree with sliman above. These things take time.
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Post by CO_VU_Fan on Oct 18, 2010 14:28:40 GMT -5
To describe as "bums" the intelligent, hard-working young men who met admission standards for Valpo is way off base. Call them poor athletes if you wish, but they are far from being bums! I've talked to several of them and they're fine young men who want to succeed on the football field as well as elsewhere. They're frustrated, but not ready to jump ship. I suspect everyone agrees that the current football situation is an embarrassment, including the coach and his staff. It was embarrassing last year as well, so we knew the talent level probably was not where it should be. The continued lack of success clearly has hurt whatever confidence may have existed; you can see it when the enthusiasm of a good VU play is quickly erased by a poor one. I'm as impatient as most fans, but with less than a season of new leadership under our belts, I think we're being a bit harsh on everyone. Agreed. All the info on Coach Carlson was that he is a builder of programs. The VU program will take some time - it is an evolution not a revolution. The measure of this season should be how this team responds to Coach Carlson in these last four games. If they become competitive, and build on incremental positives, Coach Carlson may be building a good program. I too, was hoping for a more competitive team this year, but realize this could take some time. Where would the VU Men's BB program be if people only looked at Homer's record his first 3 or 4 season's? |
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Post by milanmiracle on Oct 18, 2010 15:05:05 GMT -5
I suspect everyone agrees that the current football situation is an embarrassment, including the coach and his staff. It was embarrassing last year as well, so we knew the talent level probably was not where it should be...I think we're being a bit harsh on everyone. You're absolutely right, last year was bad, but this is much worse. Last year they lost games, but they only had one game that they lost by more than forty points. This year they AVERAGE losing by 40 points. Last year the worst game was 48-7. This year the average loss is 49-9. It's hard to say this, but last year was better, and significantly. I get that Rome wasn't built in a day, but I can't see how getting significantly worse helps build a program who's biggest problem was creating a winning culture. |
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Post by vu72 on Oct 18, 2010 15:14:53 GMT -5
To describe as "bums" the intelligent, hard-working young men who met admission standards for Valpo is way off base. Call them poor athletes if you wish, but they are far from being bums! I've talked to several of them and they're fine young men who want to succeed on the football field as well as elsewhere. They're frustrated, but not ready to jump ship. I suspect everyone agrees that the current football situation is an embarrassment, including the coach and his staff. It was embarrassing last year as well, so we knew the talent level probably was not where it should be. The continued lack of success clearly has hurt whatever confidence may have existed; you can see it when the enthusiasm of a good VU play is quickly erased by a poor one. I'm as impatient as most fans, but with less than a season of new leadership under our belts, I think we're being a bit harsh on everyone. Agreed. All the info on Coach Carlson was that he is a builder of programs. The VU program will take some time - it is an evolution not a revolution. The measure of this season should be how this team responds to Coach Carlson in these last four games. If they become competitive, and build on incremental positives, Coach Carlson may be building a good program. I too, was hoping for a more competitive team this year, but realize this could take some time. Where would the VU Men's BB program be if people only looked at Homer's record his first 3 or 4 season's?[/quote] Well, the answer is, pretty bad. During Homer's SECOND through fourth season, we were a combined 14-68. We finished last in the conference three years in a row. Now the floor is named after him. Give Coach Carlson the same chance. Homer got the ship turned in year 5. Let's give the football coach the same chance. |
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Post by 78crusader on Oct 18, 2010 16:49:37 GMT -5
Coach Carlson's latest football blog entry -- a recap of the Jacksonville game -- has now been posted.
I give credit to Coach Carlson for taking the time -- and taking the responsibility -- for posting this entry on what has to be a very tough and trying day for him.
Turning a FB program around takes time. Unfortunately, this fact doesn't set well in today's got-to-have-it-now culture. I would simply ask those on this board to remember that the PFL preseason survey had us a unanimous choice for dead last in the league. Only two of our players were selected for any type of all-league team. And Coach had a very limited recruiting season.
This program will turn around. We have the right coach to do it. Please give him time. Thanks, Paul
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Post by milanmiracle on Oct 18, 2010 19:35:14 GMT -5
I give Coach Carlson a whole lot of credit for continuing to be accountable for this season. He didn't get much time to recruit, which the team clearly needed. But that was VU's fault, extending the hiring process so long.
And I get that Valpo was picked dead last, but there a huge difference between dead last and being the worst team in all of football on both sides of the ball. Exactly what improvement are they showing on any side of the ball? Sometimes you can look at a team and say, well they're not good but they're getting better at (fill in blank). This team isn't getting better at anything and that's my issue with this season. I said this before and I'll say it again, Dale Carlson may be a great coach in the long run, I have no idea how this story will end. However, I certainly don't agree with, or condone how he's going about changing the culture of the program. You have to give your talent (or lack there of) a chance to succeed. I don't believe he's doing that in any way shape or form.
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Post by valpo10 on Oct 18, 2010 19:59:30 GMT -5
Yes I am sorry, bums was not the proper word.
To go back on the points of recruiting. Carlson is going to have his hands full. First off, you have to recruit geographically because one, we are a small school, and two, a stinky FCS program.
The problem is nobody in the area (Wisconsin, Illinois, Indiana, Michigan, Ohio) with slightly any talent will want to come here. If you are talented enough you'll go and play in the big-time division I schools, next tier is the OK, scholarship, division I programs, then the competitive D3 schools. Why would a player want to come to Valpo, pay 35k, and suck, when they can go to UW-Whitewater or Mount Union, pay half that, and constantly have a chance at a national title. Once all those talented kids are off the list, the talent pool is LIMITED. At this point, most of the D3 schools around here would kill us (doesn't help we are right in-between the two national powers).
Also I don't know if Chicago is the answer. Adam's last recruiting class had a fair amount of people from the Chicago area and we all know how that is turning out. Given they are sophomores, but still.
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Post by vuskr on Oct 18, 2010 22:20:37 GMT -5
Milanmiracle is getting to the point in has last post when he says "Its hard to see that he's giving his talent any chance to succeed." There may be an example of this in the Post-Tribune article on Sunday "...whose two-deep lineup Saturday included 14 freshmen." Add to that any freshmen on special teams. Can all these boys really be ready to be successful against the #1 PFL team?
There may be others along with Milan that don't agree with or condone how Coach is trying to change the program's culture as he may allow the deconstruction to continue until he only has his recruits on board, but can we afford any more impact to Valpo's reputation in the meantime? He will have a rough road recruiting as there were a number of recruits leaving the game Saturday before the end of the first quarter, when the score was 21-0.
We all hope that Coach can figure out something to get the team back into the games for these last 4 weeks so the final score is more like the results from the Drake game.
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Post by fwalum on Oct 18, 2010 22:42:19 GMT -5
To describe as "bums" the intelligent, hard-working young men who met admission standards for Valpo is way off base. Call them poor athletes if you wish, but they are far from being bums! I've talked to several of them and they're fine young men who want to succeed on the football field as well as elsewhere. They're frustrated, but not ready to jump ship. I suspect everyone agrees that the current football situation is an embarrassment, including the coach and his staff. It was embarrassing last year as well, so we knew the talent level probably was not where it should be. The continued lack of success clearly has hurt whatever confidence may have existed; you can see it when the enthusiasm of a good VU play is quickly erased by a poor one. I'm as impatient as most fans, but with less than a season of new leadership under our belts, I think we're being a bit harsh on everyone. Agreed. All the info on Coach Carlson was that he is a builder of programs. The VU program will take some time - it is an evolution not a revolution. The measure of this season should be how this team responds to Coach Carlson in these last four games. If they become competitive, and build on incremental positives, Coach Carlson may be building a good program. I too, was hoping for a more competitive team this year, but realize this could take some time. Where would the VU Men's BB program be if people only looked at Homer's record his first 3 or 4 season's?[/quote] Well, the answer is, pretty bad. During Homer's SECOND through fourth season, we were a combined 14-68. We finished last in the conference three years in a row. Now the floor is named after him. Give Coach Carlson the same chance. Homer got the ship turned in year 5. Let's give the football coach the same chance. Remember this time very vividly. VU was considering a move out of D1 because it did not appear as if we could compete. Had at least one very serious talk with Homer about the situation and his deep desire to remain at the D1 level. He was right, lets hope Carlson can make the same type of turnaround. His seems to have the right track record so give him some time to do the job. |
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Post by rlh on Oct 18, 2010 23:25:14 GMT -5
Funny...just a couple of weeks ago people were complaining because he wasn't playing the younger guys, but was sticking with the experienced players...now he's criticized for playing the freshmen....face it guys, we might not win a game this year, but we have to be fair and give him at least 3 years before making a judgement. The kids are giving all they have, and the coaches are committed, that much I know. The results may not be what we want, and we may not see the improvement, but it's too soon to abandon the plan.
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Post by milanmiracle on Oct 19, 2010 6:49:57 GMT -5
Funny...just a couple of weeks ago people were complaining because he wasn't playing the younger guys, but was sticking with the experienced players...now he's criticized for playing the freshmen....face it guys, we might not win a game this year, but we have to be fair and give him at least 3 years before making a judgment. The kids are giving all they have, and the coaches are committed, that much I know. The results may not be what we want, and we may not see the improvement, but it's too soon to abandon the plan. Let me first say (again) that we have to give it more time than 1 season, and Coach Carlson might be a fine coach but there needs to be some sign of progress that fans, students, alumni and others can point to.... Do you think anybody's going to come to a game knowing you'll lose by 40 every week? On that note, when you're losing every game by 40, expect some criticism. Losing is one thing, looking like you don't practice during the week is another. And there's no way around that, that's how bad they look. I know they practice (though I do wonder if it's football at times), and I know they try, but there's no evidence of that on the field where it counts. You mention it's too soon to "abandon the plan". Well, what the heck is it!?! Run an offense that you don't have the remote talent to run? Not stop anybody or even look like you could stop anybody? I think at some point you have to switch the system to something that keeps you in games or gives you a chance to compete. Let's keep in mind they're not getting blown out by Notre Dame and Ohio State, they're getting belittled by other non-scholarship schools. The one thing I'd love to know is where he thinks he's going to get these recruits from? How is recruiting going to work when they come to the games and see you blown out by 40 every week (literally) and that you have done in essence nothing to stop it in the name of the "system" and the "plan". Does getting humiliated every week help? I am sure the recruit and their friends/family really enjoy seeing 86-7 on ESPN. Here's snippet of a conversation I remember from years ago. "Hey "Joe", aren't you being recruited by Vanderbilt? You must not be very good if they want you. Ha ha. And if you're going to tell me that doesn't happen, you're wrong because I've seen it firsthand and that was at an SEC school (pre Jay Cutler)". They didn't go to Vanderbilt, but went to a lower tier school that won. *Also of note, it's one thing to be embarrassed when they pay for your school, it's a completely different story when you pay to get humiliated every week. |
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Post by vu72 on Oct 19, 2010 7:34:12 GMT -5
Note to Miracle: Programs make changes and improve records all the time. Failure, as dismal as it may have been, doesn't mean you can't improve.
Here is part of what Coach Carlson said in his most recent blog post:
I cited my own experience building the Ohio Dominican University football program. During the middle of our second year our record stood at 1-15. From game seven of that second year through 2009 the ODU record was 35-12. I have been in the situation we are facing at Valparaiso University and I have successfully led previous teams to success.
Your question about who would want to play for a school that has had the results we have had is a reasonable one. You only have to look back a few years to see that Valpo has had some pretty bad years followed by success. Our last league championship followed a last place finish.
Kids, in all sports, want to play. So you are a David Macchi. You have been told you are to short to play quarterback, maybe you should try safety. You say "bull", I'm a quarterback. So you look for a program that believes in your talent a nd gives you a shot. The result is...well, look at the record book. Let's say you want to go to a Lutheran school and want to play D1 football, you don't have any choice other than Valpo and Wagner. If you want to play at a school with nothing but bus rides, then go to a D3 school. Valpo plays nation wide.
You want to go to a school with a nationally recognized engineering program and still play football. Franklin isn't going to cut it. I could go on and on.
Valpo has lots to offer and the ability to be part of a major turnaroud is one of them. Ask Casey Schmidt or David Redmon why in the world they would want to play for a school where the record was soooooooo bad.
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Post by vudb28 on Oct 19, 2010 10:02:15 GMT -5
Have faith everyone. Even Coach Horne turned this program program around from a 1-10 season to 8-4 and a PFL Championship. All Coach Carlson needs is time, it'll happen.
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