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Post by milanmiracle on Oct 19, 2010 10:51:51 GMT -5
Valpo has lots to offer and the ability to be part of a major turnaroud is one of them. Ask Casey Schmidt or David Redmon why in the world they would want to play for a school where the record was soooooooo bad. One word....Scholarship.
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Post by vu72 on Oct 19, 2010 10:55:21 GMT -5
Valpo has lots to offer and the ability to be part of a major turnaroud is one of them. Ask Casey Schmidt or David Redmon why in the world they would want to play for a school where the record was soooooooo bad. One word....Scholarship. So you are saying that Casey and David couldn't have gotten a scholarship at a different D1 school?? Right.
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Post by milanmiracle on Oct 19, 2010 10:58:25 GMT -5
So you are saying that Casey and David couldn't have gotten a scholarship at a different D1 school?? Right. No, I am 100% positive they could have, but it's a whole different catagory when you can pay and lose vs. getting a free ride and lose. At least that's my opinion.
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Post by CO_VU_Fan on Oct 19, 2010 12:16:06 GMT -5
So you are saying that Casey and David couldn't have gotten a scholarship at a different D1 school?? Right. No, I am 100% positive they could have, but it's a whole different catagory when you can pay and lose vs. getting a free ride and lose. At least that's my opinion. I think we're comparing apples and oranges here. Without a doubt, VU has a lot to offer potential recruits in football - everything except a scholarship. I believe what 'milanmiracle' is trying to say, with respect to recruiting against scholarship offering schools, is that kids are more likely to take the scholarship over the potential of what VU has to offer. Where VU has an opportunity in recruiting is the kids that are offered partial scholarships, or kids (parents) that don't care about the cost. As other posters have stated in other threads, the overall package with non-scholarship incentives can be competitive with other schools that offer limited scholarships.
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Post by milanmiracle on Oct 19, 2010 12:25:36 GMT -5
Note to Miracle: Programs make changes and improve records all the time. Failure, as dismal as it may have been, doesn't mean you can't improve. Agreed, you can improve and with this coaching staff, I expected it. Here is part of what Coach Carlson said in his most recent blog post: I cited my own experience building the Ohio Dominican University football program. During the middle of our second year our record stood at 1-15. From game seven of that second year through 2009 the ODU record was 35-12. I have been in the situation we are facing at Valparaiso University and I have successfully led previous teams to success. Okay, that's fine, Carlson was 1-15, that's par for the course at Valpo. My question would be what were they they year before? Right now he's made the team and the program worse, not better. Last year games were at least in the realm of reason, not like this where you have to question if Valpo belongs on the field with anybody on any level. That includes high school. Kids, in all sports, want to play. So you are a David Macchi. You have been told you are to short to play quarterback, maybe you should try safety. You say "bull", I'm a quarterback. So you look for a program that believes in your talent a nd gives you a shot. The result is...well, look at the record book. I 100% agree that kids want an opportunity to play, and sooner rather than later. That's definitely a selling point. Unearthing hidden gems will be the key here, and likely the only way this gets turned around. However, in a team sport, who your teammates are and your chances for success do factor into that process. Do you really want to be the quarterback when you know you are going to get planted into the ground every time you drop back to pass? David Macchi is a good point, but really how many of those are there? Maybe that theory works, I guess we'll find out soon enough. Let's say you want to go to a Lutheran school and want to play D1 football, you don't have any choice other than Valpo and Wagner. If you want to play at a school with nothing but bus rides, then go to a D3 school. Valpo plays nation wide. I thought this was D1 in name only, or at least that's what I've been told (repeatedly). I think the problem isn't D1 vs. DIII, but non scholarship D1 vs. D2. Do a couple of plane flights offset getting some scholarship money? You want to go to a school with a nationally recognized engineering program and still play football. Franklin isn't going to cut it. I could go on and on. So VU's counting on engineering Lutherans who want to pay their own way to play football? Hmm, that explains why they aren't very good. If your're talking about engineers, you have to be good enough to play D1, but not good enough to walk on at Purdue. Pretty narrow field there, don't you think? Valpo has lots to offer and the ability to be part of a major turnaround is one of them. Ask Casey Schmidt or David Redmon why in the world they would want to play for a school where the record was soooooooo bad. I'd agree with you that being a part of a major turnaround is a selling point and most athletes would embrace that challenge. However, that only works if you believe there will be a turnaround. He didn't have to win games, but being worse than you we last year isn't going to convince people you're headed in the right direction.
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Post by valporun on Oct 19, 2010 13:45:48 GMT -5
milan, honestly..if you don't want to give Coach Carlson a chance, that's your prerogative, but from what I'm reading here, maybe its best if you become like a Cub fan for the rest of this season, and just walk away? You're seeming to take on a 'jj complex', where you're close to talking about dropping football altogether because of how bad the losses have been.
I'll admit, the losses were expected, not these embarrassing losses, but losses all the same. We just need to sit back, take a few more lumps, and wait to see what Coach Carlson's system will do once he has the kind of talented recruits he wants for the program. We just have to see what his first year of recruiting and next year will do, since the team needs more than one year of learning this system to find out where each player fits, and which cogs will make this football machine work smoothly, and win games that we lost badly this season.
I know I'm tired of seeing the blowout losses, but I was prepped for losing games. I'm going to give the man a chance to prove his program can work at Valpo. Maybe it's time for you, and all the other Valpo fans who are having a difficult time with this season to walk away for awhile?
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Post by valpo04 on Oct 19, 2010 14:05:55 GMT -5
Maybe it's time for you, and all the other Valpo fans who are having a difficult time with this season to walk away for awhile? I just wanted to chime in and say I am with milan, 100%. Our football team just lost 86-7! 86-7!!!!!!! Instead of complaining about the lack of results or that they JUST LOST 86-7!!! we are supposed to "walk away for a while??" This team is statistically the worst team in college football. Why can't people vent about that?? Keep it up milan... not all of us think you are wrong.
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Post by valporun on Oct 19, 2010 15:30:50 GMT -5
This team is statistically the worst team in college football. Why can't people vent about that?? [/quote]
You'll beat the same dead horse for four more weeks, and I don't want to keep hearing or talking about how we have the worst offense or defense in D-1 football when I could see it for myself.
We've seen enough posts over the years that have been beating that same dead horse over football or basketball until we'd have the PETA or Humane Society on us for our unethical treatment of said horse. Just let it go, and walk away if you can't handle the fact that our football team sucks both on the field and in the statistics.
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Post by valpo04 on Oct 19, 2010 17:03:58 GMT -5
You'll beat the same dead horse for four more weeks, and I don't want to keep hearing or talking about how we have the worst offense or defense in D-1 football when I could see it for myself. We've seen enough posts over the years that have been beating that same dead horse over football or basketball until we'd have the PETA or Humane Society on us for our unethical treatment of said horse. Just let it go, and walk away if you can't handle the fact that our football team sucks both on the field and in the statistics. If you don't want to hear or talk about how bad the football team is, perhaps you need to "walk away" from these threads for a while. Do you really only talk about things on this board that you don't "see for yourself?" I suppose you want us to only talk about the good things that you can see for yourself. Is that how it works? Gimme a break. You are part of a message board that discusses sports... good and bad. Telling people to let it go and walk away... because YOU don't want to talk about it? Interesting. No one is forcing you to read this. I guess you would prefer that we just ignore football. Pretend it doesn't exist. Don't talk about it until they are good again. Would that be better? The team stinks right now, and people are rightfully talking and complaining about it. If you don't want to partake in the discussion, skip the thread.
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Post by lurkingdog on Oct 19, 2010 21:31:13 GMT -5
...Carlson was 1-15, that's par for the course at Valpo. My question would be what were they they year before? There was no "year before." Carlson started the Ohio Dominican program.
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Post by lurkingdog on Oct 19, 2010 21:36:33 GMT -5
By the way, he also started the program at Trine (nee Tri-State) University.
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Post by valpo10 on Oct 19, 2010 22:24:01 GMT -5
Maybe it's time for you, and all the other Valpo fans who are having a difficult time with this season to walk away for awhile? Good luck telling prospective students and recruits that 86-7 means nothing. Those ESPN bottomlines won't delete Valpo's blowout scores, and like it or not, students and recruits are going to judge the university as a whole because of it.
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Post by bbtds on Oct 20, 2010 5:24:04 GMT -5
What sport are you talking about? Valpo doesn't have a football team right now until it actually gets better. How much better I don't know. I guess until the dead horse carcass rots away.
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Post by milanmiracle on Oct 20, 2010 14:59:08 GMT -5
This team is statistically the worst team in college football. Why can't people vent about that?? You'll beat the same dead horse for four more weeks, and I don't want to keep hearing or talking about how we have the worst offense or defense in D-1 football when I could see it for myself. We've seen enough posts over the years that have been beating that same dead horse over football or basketball until we'd have the PETA or Humane Society on us for our unethical treatment of said horse. Just let it go, and walk away if you can't handle the fact that our football team sucks both on the field and in the statistics. Is this the "if you don't have something nice to say, don't say anything" speech? Just wondering, because that's what it sounds like. I will say the dead horse and PETA reference was pretty funny though. You know what I'd like? Not having a dead horse to beat! Maybe if they didn't suck every game all year long, we wouldn't be bemoaning the fact that VU is the worst D1 team on offense AND on defense. A fact you are well aware of at this point. I got on the Pioneer League football board and read the comments on how Jacksonville (mostly from Jacksonville) tried to keep the score down and was using backups in the second quarter! I won't condone the fact that they were going to go for it with .01 left in the second half before the penalty, but the rest of the game they'd have pretty much had to take a knee to stop from scoring. It should never be that bad against a conference foe. Go ask one of the freshmen if they should just wait 3 years until they're okay again. Or better yet, go ask a senior. I wonder how they feel about getting it handed to them every game, and nothing is done except practicing for next year, or the year after, on game day? Would you really want to bring a prospective student or donor to this debacle? Wouldn't it be nice to take people to an actual game that might be competitive? My wife won't even go when we're in town because "it's not really a game", and she's an alum. It's not that she doesn't like football either, because we go to both Purdue and Notre Dame games but she won't go to Valpo. Sad. And that's what the bitching complaining and moaning is about, not putting a respectable product on the field. A product that represents Valparaiso University in a very visible way. You don't see the womens volleyball score scrolling across the screen every Saturday afternoon now do you? Like it or not, the basketball program and the football program are the face of a university. What does it say when VU is the worst football team in D1?
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Post by rlh on Oct 20, 2010 16:34:11 GMT -5
So what's your answer...not report our scores. Look we are all hurtin' , including the players and coaches, but that doesn't mean we demean them or abandon them. I have no doubts the players are doing the best they can, and if you have an idea that would straighten this out right now, I'm sure the coaches would love to hear it. They are doing the best they can with what they have. I don't know what you want...we all want a better team, and in time we hopefully will have one...unfortunately we have to live with what we have and my view is we support the effort and hope the results will follow. That's my opinion, and you are welcome to yours.
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