To our Moderators: Call to Action

[wh]

I must tell you that I was in utter disbelief as I read through the posts in the original thread referring to 2 African American Mid Con coaches as "monkeys." As if the comment itself wasn't insulting enough, it was supported by certain well known posters on this board, who among other things posted pictures of monkeys and lambasted those who took offense to them.
Subsequently, the original poster apologized and his apology sounded sincere to me. I also believe he was sincere when he claimed he was not aware that African Americans are highly sensitive to being called monkeys or primates. From what I can ascertain, this poster is a college student, still learning life's lessons. Enough said about him.
What is really offensive are those whom I know to be much older (and supposedly wiser), supporting and excusing said remarks. Even today, one such person posted yet another picture of a monkey. This is another obvious in-your-face response to those who objected to his original picture-posts.
It is hard for me to imagine that the posters on this board need a history lesson to understand the magnitude of this type of remark. But, maybe a few do. Those of us old enough to remember may recall Howard Cosell igniting a protest after calling Redskins wideout Alvin Garrett a "little monkey." More recently, Billy Packer referred to Allan Iverson as a "tough monkey." Both incidents created nationwide furor. Why? References to Negroes as monkeys go all the way back to the time of slavery. In order to justify their actions, white slave owners considered Negroes as descending from primates, and therefore had no souls. In that respect they were no different than horses or any other beasts of burden.
The racially insensitive garbage that spewed from that original thread was inexcusably allowed to continue and fester like a cancer out of control. The people responsible for these remarks should be censored according to the rules you established to send a message that this type of activity will NEVER be tolerated. I don't care who the people are, how often they post, or what their relationship is with VU basketball. My challenge to you is to cut these low-lifes off at the knees and return this board to the high-quality, innocent banter venue it is intended to be.

[rick]

wh said:

I must tell you that I was in utter disbelief as I read through the posts in the original thread referring to 2 African American Mid Con coaches as "monkeys." As if the comment itself wasn't insulting enough, it was supported by certain well known posters on this board, who among other things posted pictures of monkeys and lambasted those who took offense to them.
Subsequently, the original poster apologized and his apology sounded sincere to me. I also believe he was sincere when he claimed he was not aware that African Americans are highly sensitive to being called monkeys or primates. From what I can ascertain, this poster is a college student, still learning life's lessons. Enough said about him.
What is really offensive are those whom I know to be much older (and supposedly wiser), supporting and excusing said remarks. Even today, one such person posted yet another picture of a monkey. This is another obvious in-your-face response to those who objected to his original picture-posts.
It is hard for me to imagine that the posters on this board need a history lesson to understand the magnitude of this type of remark. But, maybe a few do. Those of us old enough to remember may recall Howard Cosell igniting a protest after calling Redskins wideout Alvin Garrett a "little monkey." More recently, Billy Packer referred to Allan Iverson as a "tough monkey." Both incidents created nationwide furor. Why? References to Negroes as monkeys go all the way back to the time of slavery. In order to justify their actions, white slave owners considered Negroes as descending from primates, and therefore had no souls. In that respect they were no different than horses or any other beasts of burden.
The racially insensitive garbage that spewed from that original thread was inexcusably allowed to continue and fester like a cancer out of control. The people responsible for these remarks should be censored according to the rules you established to send a message that this type of activity will NEVER be tolerated. I don't care who the people are, how often they post, or what their relationship is with VU basketball. My challenge to you is to cut these low-lifes off at the knees and return this board to the high-quality, innocent banter venue it is intended to be.

Didn't we all evolve from monkeys according to certain theories? They are just our relatives who haven't yet advanced as far as we have. You take yourself way too seriously. And by the way, Howard Cosell often used that little phrase to address his relatives, his grandchildren. It was a harmless and affectionate phrase he used all of the time. You would know this if you had read anything about him instead of having a knee-jerk reaction like most white liberals do in situations like these. If you knew anything about my background at all, for you to insinuate that what I am doing in a humorous way is in any way racist is just complete buffoonery on your part. This should be discussed on the off-topic board anyway. Oh, you will probably want that censored too won't you? Where else but from the university community, the halls of free speech would we find someone like you who can't stand people whose opinions are different from your own? And none of those opinions are now or have ever been or proved to be racist except in your own little mind.

[rick]

One more thing WH, these are the board rules YOU in fact have violated in your accusation below:

You agree, through your use of this forum, that you will not post any material which is false, defamatory, inaccurate,

when you state:

FALSE and INACCURATE
What is really offensive are those whom I know to be much older (and supposedly wiser), supporting and excusing said remarks. Even today, one such person posted yet another picture of a monkey. This is another obvious in-your-face response to those who objected to his original picture-posts.

and

INACCURATE and DEFAMATORY

The racially insensitive garbage that spewed from that original thread
and

DEFAMATORY

My challenge to you is to cut these low-lifes

You want to take back those false charges or do you want a lawsuit for slander/libel? And if I decide to pursue this lawsuit, the administrators of the board will be legally obligated to give my attorney your name, address, and phone number so that you can be contacted.

[rick]

My suggestion to the administrators at this time is not to erase anything which has been written so that it may be used as evidence in case a slander or libel lawsuit ensues.

[wh]

rick said:

And if I decide to pursue this lawsuit, the administrators of the board will be legally obligated to give my attorney your name, address, and phone number so that you can be contacted.

Your feeble attempt at intimidation is laughable, my friend. If I were you, the only thing I would concern myself with are the two coaches you defamed with your picture-posts finding out about them and having their attorneys ask the administrators for YOUR name and address.

[jmill]

Can a moderator please do something about this?
This is ridiculous on both sides.
This is a sports forum.

[rick]

wh said:

rick said:

And if I decide to pursue this lawsuit, the administrators of the board will be legally obligated to give my attorney your name, address, and phone number so that you can be contacted.

Your feeble attempt at intimidation is laughable, my friend. If I were you, the only thing I would concern myself with are the two coaches you defamed with your picture-posts finding out about them and having their attorneys ask the administrators for YOUR name and address.

So I will assume by your above response that you are not taking back your false and defamatory accusations: that my comments were racist? And that I am a low-life? And that I defamed someone? And that my new avatar is an in-your-face response to some imaginary offense only in your mind?

[cp]

Threads like this demonstrate why Valpo basketball never strives any higher.

The fans simply don't deserve it.

[rick]

cp said:

Threads like this demonstrate why Valpo basketball never strives any higher.

The fans simply don't deserve it.

Talk to the person who started this thread with his false accusations. If he didn't want to be called on them he should have kept his big mouth shut.

Accusing someone of something that was never intended is what the dirtybirdbacker did to lock up an otherwise good thread. Now we apparently have a white liberal with massive amounts of guilt and he apparently is projecting it on to others including myself. I'm not going to take that from anyone because it simply is not true. No one knows what my intentions are but me. To make false accusations is cowardly and effeminate regardless of who makes them. People need to deal with their own guilt for things I'm not responsible for. This kind of intimidation is the same thing that is going on with those crazy cartoons. We should never buckle under to that kind of insanity from weak-kneed, guilty, white liberals, or Islamafacists, or whomever- ever!

[vcboys2000]

"...the truly guilty party often lashes out in fevor at his antagonist in an attempt to reverse the exposure that has been brought upon himself by actions that he now regrets."
-Ben Franklin

I commend Crusader for expressed his unintent to offend, and then bowed out like a gentleman. Like the great ceo, Jack Welch used to say about character all the time, " You, young man, have got what it takes to get to the top and last long there!"

See you guys in two weeks!

[rick]

vcboy2000 said:

"...the truly guilty party often lashes out in fevor at his antagonist in an attempt to reverse the exposure that has been brought upon himself by actions that he now regrets."
-Ben Franklin

I commend Crusader for expressed his unintent to offend, and then bowed out like a gentleman. Like the great ceo, Jack Welch used to say about character all the time, " You, young man, have got what it takes to get to the top and last long there!"

See you guys in two weeks!

Are you the same guy who tried to call rlh a racist because he chose Oppland over Greene as an MVP candidate? Or was that your buddy deadbirdbacker, who by the way called crusaderfan08 a "cracker." This is typical hypocrisy that comes from just a few of the Oral Roberts and Bob Jones evangelical gene pool of self-righteous hypocrites.

From you two Valpo haters who are now trying to be the friend of those whom you have disrespected and ridiculed by riding on a phony racist charge is laughable but not unexpected.

Let me just tell you and your moronic-behaving friend that the next time you see me at the game if you are in Valpo, I want you to come up to me just about the time my good friend Jay Pheiffer and his beautiful wife and children and I are renewing our friendships. Notice the genuine love and respect I have for Jay and his entire family, especially those two cute little kids, Jason and Paige. Oh by the way, he's black.

And if you would like, I could put you in touch with a black woman who I dated many, many years ago. Now I know you folks over at ORU and Bob Jones University might not think that's Kosher and all, but you just don't have a clue and you and WH should try and do a little investigating before making an ass out of yourselves.

And let me tell you about those black and Hispanic men who I went to Vietnam with who were my friends and some of them died which hurt very much.

And let me tell you that I lived in California in a commune where the white population was in the minority and I hung around all kinds of people of different backgrounds and my best friends were black men. We did everything together - work, sports, trips to the mall, ran on the beach.

So Boy, you don't have a clue what you are talking about and should just go back where you came from and quit acting like the self-righteous jackass redneck that you seem to be!

And by the way, you apparently are not bright enough to know this but most people who hate other people because of the color of their skin don't mind that others know. They certainly would not try and defend themselves against charges made against them for that. They tend to be proud of their bigotry.

And most people who know me know that I am a straight-shooter and if I didn't like purple people or black people that I would be up-front about it.

And I don't like you or deadbirdbacker. Both of you are infantile troublemakers and most of the folks on your own board don't like you. I've been told that in personal messages and from others I know. Most of the people over there are good folks but you two tend to smell up the place. But that's just life. There are always bad smells that we have to put up with. Go back to your unclean dirtybird nest.

[stlvufan]

jmill said:

Can a moderator please do something about this?
This is ridiculous on both sides.
This is a sports forum.

The moderator ALREADY did something about it.

This is the Off-Topic forum, not the Sports forum.

[wh]

rick said:

cp said:

Talk to the person who started this thread with his false accusations. If he didn't want to be called on them he should have kept his big mouth shut...

Accusing someone of something that was never intended is what the dirtybirdbacker did to lock up an otherwise good thread...

To make false accusations is cowardly and effeminate regardless of who makes them...

"If he didn't want to be called on them he should have kept his big mouth shut..." You might want to get your facts straight. You didn't "call me" on anything. I called you out for continuing to inappropriately post racially-insensitive pictures on this message board. What you have done in turn is to endlessly babble, trying to justify an indefensible position with idle threats and feigned righteous indignation. Any way you try to spin it, pal, what you are doing is clearly over the top and should be stopped by the administrators of this board.

As to my "false accusations" being "cowardly and effeminate", the only cowardly action of which I am guilty is sitting idly by while eaglebacker took you to task alone in the original thread. He was right to be outraged and I should have supported him.

As to your continued claim that you don't mean anything offensive by what you're doing DOESN'T MEAN WHAT YOU'RE DOING ISN'T OFFENSIVE. If an entire group of people is offended by a certain reference to past abhorant treatment, common decency (if nothing else) dictates that we stay as far away from those references as possible.

[rick]

wh said:

rick said:

cp said:

Talk to the person who started this thread with his false accusations. If he didn't want to be called on them he should have kept his big mouth shut...

Accusing someone of something that was never intended is what the dirtybirdbacker did to lock up an otherwise good thread...

To make false accusations is cowardly and effeminate regardless of who makes them...

"If he didn't want to be called on them he should have kept his big mouth shut..." You might want to get your facts straight. You didn't "call me" on anything. I called you out for continuing to inappropriately post racially-insensitive pictures on this message board. What you have done in turn is to endlessly babble, trying to justify an indefensible position with idle threats and feigned righteous indignation. Any way you try to spin it, pal, what you are doing is clearly over the top and should be stopped by the administrators of this board.

As to my "false accusations" being "cowardly and effeminate", the only cowardly action of which I am guilty is sitting idly by while eaglebacker took you to task alone in the original thread. He was right to be outraged and I should have supported him.

As to your continued claim that you don't mean anything offensive by what you're doing DOESN'T MEAN WHAT YOU'RE DOING ISN'T OFFENSIVE. If an entire group of people is offended by a certain reference to past abhorant treatment, common decency (if nothing else) dictates that we stay as far away from those references as possible.

I can tell you aren't that bright.

[stlvufan]

wh said:

Subsequently, the original poster apologized and his apology sounded sincere to me. I also believe he was sincere when he claimed he was not aware that African Americans are highly sensitive to being called monkeys or primates. From what I can ascertain, this poster is a college student, still learning life's lessons. Enough said about him.

I also was not aware of this historical fact, though it does not surprise me too much.

One problem, though: No one called them monkeys because they are slaves, nor because they are black, but rather because of the way they act during the game.

To be honest, I've never seen Kevin Jones act anything like Ron Hunter, so I don't get that one.

However, I've seen Ron Hunter. My choice of description would be more like this: he acts like a little boy throwing temper tantrums, stomping all over the place whenever he doesn't get his way. That's my story and I'm standing by it. It probably wouldn't occur to me to associate that with the behavior of a monkey, but honestly, I don't see how it's aggregious for someone to do so. The analogy is in the ballpark at least.

wh said:

What is really offensive are those whom I know to be much older (and supposedly wiser), supporting and excusing said remarks. Even today, one such person posted yet another picture of a monkey. This is another obvious in-your-face response to those who objected to his original picture-posts.

Eaglebackr accused someone of posting a picture of monkey with one of the coach's face superimposed. As far as I remember, it was a figment of EB's imagination. There was a picture of a monkey, but I thought it was obviously a poke NOT at Ron Hunter or Kevin Jones, but rather a continuation of a humorous tangent that was meant to bring some levity to the argument.

What is offensive to me is the instantaneous, immediate, presumption of evil intentions any time someone inadvertantly uses an offensive term. Just once I'd like to see an activist like yourself approach the "offender" calmly and let them know why you are offended and wait to see if they truly meant to offend or not, instead of pretending you know what's in another person's heart.

wh said:

It is hard for me to imagine that the posters on this board need a history lesson to understand the magnitude of this type of remark. But, maybe a few do. Those of us old enough to remember may recall Howard Cosell igniting a protest after calling Redskins wideout Alvin Garrett a "little monkey." More recently, Billy Packer referred to Allan Iverson as a "tough monkey." Both incidents created nationwide furor. Why? References to Negroes as monkeys go all the way back to the time of slavery. In order to justify their actions, white slave owners considered Negroes as descending from primates, and therefore had no souls. In that respect they were no different than horses or any other beasts of burden.

What's missing from your history lesson is any mention of whether or not these two public figures were ever proven to have purposely made those remarks WITH THE EXPRESS INTENT of denigrating blacks.

In my younger days, I regularlly rolled my eyes any time I heard someone like Rick foam at the mouth (not that Rick foams at the mouth ) about how sensitive people are about ethnic humor, etc. I'd laugh when they rhetorically ask, 'What's next? Pretty soon we won't be able to joke, or even talk, about anything, for fear it will inadvertantly offend someone."

I've grown older and wiser now. I'm not laughing anymore. This thread is exhibit A. You expect people to know without checking first the complete list of all offensive images to peoples everywhere.

Sorry, I'm with Rick on this one.

wh said:

The racially insensitive garbage that spewed from that original thread was inexcusably allowed to continue and fester like a cancer out of control. The people responsible for these remarks should be censored according to the rules you established to send a message that this type of activity will NEVER be tolerated. I don't care who the people are, how often they post, or what their relationship is with VU basketball. My challenge to you is to cut these low-lifes off at the knees and return this board to the high-quality, innocent banter venue it is intended to be.

It just don't work that way, sport. This rhetoric, especially the last chilling sentence, only escalates the conflict further. I have never seen a more complete perversion of the very notion of "high-quality, innocent banter" than this. George Orwell would be proud. If you want to act like the hate-speech police without any constraints, please don't pretend to be seeking high-quality, innocent banter. You'll get the exact opposite.