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Post by jj on Nov 1, 2010 7:14:32 GMT -5
"No matter how much you've won,no matter how many games,no matter how many championships,no matter how many Super Bowls,you're not winning now so you stink." (BP) Intellectualize that '72. We stink and therefore the coach stinks. Book it!
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Post by valpo89 on Nov 1, 2010 9:40:52 GMT -5
So is Valpo better than a start-up? Not much. He chose to not try to salvage something, maybe a win or two, in exchange for getting the process started NOW--FROM SCRATCH. VU72 - I've been thinking about this recently. I think what Dale Carlson was hired to do at Valpo is actually more difficult than a startup program. There is such a recent history of losing - and losing badly - that is so prevalent that I think it makes it harder than starting from scratch. All of the players from the previous regime may feel as if they don't have a chance with the new coach, because it's in his best interest to play young guys and prepare for the future. So they have a bad attitude, and with the scores of the recent games I'm sure some of them have given up totally if they haven't already quit. I'm sure the extent of this rebuilding job is much tougher than Carlson ever imagined. If anyone can get it turned around, I think he has the right attitude (and history, regardless of JJ's 'analysis') of anyone who would be willing to take the job. Aside from that, maybe it would be in everyone's best interest to discontinue the program for 2-3 years and then start over from scratch. Although with about 15 freshmen playing significant roles already, it's probably too late for that now. |
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Post by milanmiracle on Nov 1, 2010 13:24:25 GMT -5
I've already thought about it, and I would agree that VU's situation is worse than a start up. There's already a culture of losing, and that doesn't help. Sometimes I wonder if Coach Carlson realized just how different this challenge would be. I think when you have to change an opinion vs. form an opinion, you're facing a much more difficult challenge.
My personal opinion, he took steps backwards this year by not allowing his players to compete. You can't change the culture by experiencing the same results or worse. All that happened this year is the players were told they aren't good enough to be on the field with anybody and that they don't have the talent to run "the system".
I've seen programs change their culture before (Purdue - Colletto vs. Tiller), and Tiller did everything in his power to keep Purdue in games and gave them the best shot to win every game. Remember, this wasn't the Drew Brees Purdue, but the Billy Dicken Purdue. If anybody can remember those years, Billy Dicken was a safety the year before and converted back to quarterback because he gave them the best chance to win.
Does anybody really believe that Carlson did that this year, really gave these kids their best opportunity to win? Or did he throw them under the bus all in the name of a system? I believe the latter, and I don't think that's how you go about changing a culture. Maybe I am wrong, only time will tell.
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Post by vuchunga on Nov 2, 2010 18:48:54 GMT -5
I have spoken to players, of all grades, and a common theme for many is to leave the program and the school as well. I do not know if it is disdain for the program, the coaching staff or the scoreboard. If the coach is allowing the schedule to run out in order to try and recruit his prototype player, then the reports I have heard about him are true. But the sad reality of this is that some players had offers from other schools to play and chose this program in order to try and help - and now are left to either deal with what has been handed them or move on. The problem with dealing with this is that the sideline will more than likely will be all too familiar to several young men while underclassmen take the field or the loss of a year to transfer to another program.
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Post by vufbfan4life on Nov 2, 2010 21:14:42 GMT -5
From what I've seen VU hasn't been winning the last few years, that is why a new coach was brought in. To suggest that upperclassmen should be given a spot because they wanted to help turn this program around and they had other offers is ludicrous. This is Non-scholarship football, no position is ever gauranteed. Any new recruit can come in and compete for a starting spot in any year. Most of the time when a new coach is hired, he brings in his own players and gets rid of the rest thru attrition-whether they win or lose is another matter.
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Post by milanmiracle on Nov 4, 2010 8:51:19 GMT -5
My position has very little to do with seniors vs. freshman, as much as it has to do with the ability of the players to compete in "the system" they are running. For example, you wouldn't throw a jump ball in the corner of the endzone for Wes Welker, but you might for Terrell Owens. Give the kids a chance
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Post by footballfever on Nov 8, 2010 18:07:11 GMT -5
This football program bashing has got to stop. I, for one, am proud of our boys. They get blasted on forums like this and even from some professors at Valpo (you heard me right...even professors at the school.....fact.)
The rules are rigid at Valpo......a number of boys couldn't make the cut here. Too bad. The coach has put it out there and if they can't follow the rules they can't play here. Granted, he may be leaning on one or two players way too much, but he is learning a new team and dealing with a most un-welcoming bunch of people.
I only hope that the majority of boys on the current team will hang with it. I have heard many are transferring after the semester; I heard one parent say his son was sick of all the ridicule. Makes you proud, huh?
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Post by milanmiracle on Nov 8, 2010 18:56:34 GMT -5
Look, I get where you are coming from in the sense you don't want the student athletes to have to deal with this ridicule and embarrassment, but what do you realistically expect when they are this horrific? This football program bashing has got to stop. I, for one, am proud of our boys. They get blasted on forums like this and even from some professors at Valpo (you heard me right...even professors at the school.....fact.) I can't verify the professors part of the equation, but I can speak for a few people who work on campus and you're right they do make fun of the football team. But there is a very good reason to do so. Nobody in their right mind thought this new coach would come in and make this team worse than they were before. I didn't even think that was possible. It's not like he's given any hope to the fans either. They're awful in everything they do. Awful. Which brings me to my next question? What exactly are you proud of? The fact that they show up and get pummeled every Saturday? Okay, I can buy that. If it's anything other than that, I can't go with you on that one. The rules are rigid at Valpo......a number of boys couldn't make the cut here. Too bad. The coach has put it out there and if they can't follow the rules they can't play here. Granted, he may be leaning on one or two players way too much, but he is learning a new team and dealing with a most un-welcoming bunch of people. Um, if I remember correctly, this was a pretty welcoming bunch when he was hired. Not so much after he lost the first few games to lower level teams by huge margins. What exactly has he done to "welcome" the fans? Has he provided hope? Signs of improvement? So far all he's done is allow his team to get humiliated week in and week out. What exactly do you expect the fans to do? I only hope that the majority of boys on the current team will hang with it. I have heard many are transferring after the semester; I heard one parent say his son was sick of all the ridicule. Makes you proud, huh? The bigger question here is why are they getting ridiculed? They are the worst football team in D1, and they are spectacularly the worst team by being last in both defense and offense. Coach Carlson has given nothing to the fans for them to support. He might be a great man, and a good coach years from now, but as for building the fan base and not alienating anybody who cares about the program (other than Mommy and Daddy), he sucks out loud! I don't care what kind of system you are running, this is ridiculous it's not even funny. You're losing every game by almost 7 touchdowns a game. |
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Post by fwalum on Nov 9, 2010 0:31:12 GMT -5
Which brings me to my next question? What exactly are you proud of? The fact that they show up and get pummeled every Saturday? Okay, I can buy that. If it's anything other than that, I can't go with you on that one. milanmiracle, my guess is that you do not have any children and have not been significantly involved in coaching because if you are or had you would know exactly how and why footballfever can and is proud of members of this team. There is a difference between criticism and ridicule. To ridicule a young man or woman who lays it on the line week in and week out for their school is unconscionable and cowardly. I am not say that you have done any such thing, I recognize that you have put most of the blame on the coaching staff and believe that they have put these athletes in a poor position both on and off the field. I am just saying, that as a coach and the parent of children who have played sports, not always for the best of teams, there are many more reasons to be proud of an athlete other than just their team's won and loss record. It is also very easy for individual athletes to shoulder the ridicule aimed at a team. This can have unwelcome circumstances. It is obvious that many posters are passionate about the football team's situation, lets hope that improvement is something we can all be proud of in the future. |
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Post by vufbfan on Nov 9, 2010 19:49:34 GMT -5
Sorry but many "Mommys and Daddys" have been alienated because Carlson doesn't make eye contact with them or speak to them. Pretty sad when you attend home games and away games.
Support the athletes. They do not control who is played. You may have a system, but continue to use the same people with the same results is ridiculous.
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Post by vu72 on Nov 9, 2010 20:22:10 GMT -5
Sorry but many "Mommys and Daddys" have been alienated because Carlson doesn't make eye contact with them or speak to them. Pretty sad when you attend home games and away games. Support the athletes. They do not control who is played. You may have a system, but continue to use the same people with the same results is ridiculous. You know, this kinda hit me as something I've heard before. Last year I received a call from a basketball player's dad who told me Homer Drew had turned into some kind of a monster. Wondered to me if I knew whether or not he was sick. You know, the dad had gone to a game and Homer didn't even acknowledge him. So you tell me football moms and dads are upset because Coach Carlson won't talk to them or acknowledge them. Wow! What the heck is in the Valpo water?? First Coach Drew is a monster and now Coach Carlson!!!  Or just maybe, there is a breakout of unhappy mommy and daddy desease, who knew??  |
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Post by agibson on Nov 10, 2010 5:47:35 GMT -5
Has helicopter parenting raised expectations for contact with coaches?
Professors are certainly on the look-out.
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Post by rufus on Nov 10, 2010 7:42:53 GMT -5
'unhappy mommy and daddy disease' - that's great! one of the first things the head coach told us at the program my son plays in is that he doesn't want to hear from the parents about how Jimmy isn't being used right, getting enough playing time, etc. He said 'this isn't high school'. Perhaps there is some of that going on???
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Post by valpofbfan on Nov 10, 2010 9:07:27 GMT -5
Vufbfan, I am not sure you are watching the same team that I am. Carlson, has used 70+ players in the lineup this year including multiple QB's due to injuries. The vast majority of players on the team have seen playing time unless they are a planned redshirt or injured. How is that as you state in your post .... "but continue to use the same people with the same results is ridiculous".
Carlson recruited late and inherited players from the previous staff. What would you propose he do differently?
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Or just maybe, there is a breakout of unhappy mommy and daddy desease, who knew?? 