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Post by rick on Mar 11, 2006 17:37:30 GMT -5
Ok, I have a challenge for Oral Roberts - or if his son is a healer - to him as well. Or any of the phonies on TV like Benny Hinn, Price, Hagin, Copeland, Tilton, Avanzini, Kenyon, Hickey, Capps, Savelle, Cerullo, Crouch, Jakes, or anyone else who takes other people's money in the name of God and claims to be a faith-healer or just a plain Christian who can heal (especially when the cameras are on):
I have a son with cerebral palsy and he is in a wheelchair. Could you please come to Valparaiso and heal him?(But only in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit) He is a wonderful young man who believes strongly in the Christ and God and has more faith than anyone I know.
Oh, and don't expect any money from me or Ryan. Jesus never collected any or asked for seed-faith money before or after a miracle or a healing, why should you?
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Post by rick on Mar 11, 2006 20:02:33 GMT -5
From the ORU Website:
Richard Roberts is a man who is on fire for God. He has the anointing of God's Spirit to preach and pray for the sick with mighty miracles, healings, and deliverance following. The driving force behind this dynamic evangelist is the compassion of Jesus Christ for sick and hurting people. President Roberts states, "Jesus was born to step into a world of trouble and bring healing and deliverance. That is the call of God upon my own life—to step into the troubles and heartaches of people everywhere, to pray and believe God, and to bring a word of hope and resurrection."
Everywhere he goes, President Roberts brings the message of a healing, saving, and delivering Jesus. As he ministers, there is a tremendous move of the Spirit, resulting in decisions for Christ, healings, and deep commitments to serve God. Since 1980, he has conducted crusades on six continents.
Roberts is the author of many books. His latest include Claim Your Inheritance, If You're Going Through Hell, Don't Stop!, If You Catch Hell, Don't Hold It! and The Source, The Seed, The Answer. President Roberts' life story is told in the book titled He's the God of a Second Chance! Nearly 500,000 requests have been received for this book.
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Post by vcboys2000 on Mar 14, 2006 15:55:22 GMT -5
Rick, I believe that God could use anyone (not just Oral or Richard) to heal your son. He used a bunch of fisherman and others who were not deemed worthy to be trained by a rabbi and that bunch did some amazing things...
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Post by rick on Mar 14, 2006 16:14:50 GMT -5
Rick, I believe that God could use anyone (not just Oral or Richard) to heal your son. He used a bunch of fisherman and others who were not deemed worthy to be trained by a rabbi and that bunch did some amazing things... Then send him my challenge(He claims to be a healer), get him up here and "gitter done!" Your president has been pretty much proved to be a false prophet. No one has even come close to providing a respectable response to all that I have written just in this little part of world on a message board. I think he's a phony and am surprised that so many people can fall for that Benny Hinn kind of charlatanism. I mean thousands of people are being bilked, or so it seems, out their money from these guys who have already been exposed as con men, such as Tilton, Copeland, etc. I can't do much about that kind of gullibility. I just think it's sad. Hitler claimed to be a Christian and I'll bet he donated some money to charities too and may have even supported missions overseas. Probably bought a bunch of ovens too so that people in the manufacturing industry could be employed and have a good job. He must have done a lot of "good" works too.
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Post by vcboys2000 on Mar 14, 2006 19:11:44 GMT -5
Rick,
Nobody at ORU responded to all you wrote because it pointless. You've already made your mind up about P-Rob based on those articles you've read and nothing else. Some of us on that board have sat and talked with the guy and observed him for several years, and we have used those conversations to formulate an opinion about his ideas instead of just going by what someone writes.
The point of my post was not to debate your opinion about the guy, but to try and find out if you believe God can use people (any person) to heal the sick?
For the record, Richard never claims to be a healer. If you ever in Tulsa or cross paths with him at any point, go up to him at a game and ask him for yourself. He'll say, "No. I don't heal people. God heals people. All I do is pray".
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Post by rick on Mar 14, 2006 19:22:40 GMT -5
Rick, You've already made your mind up about P-Rob based on those articles you've read and nothing else. Some of us on that board have sat and talked with the guy and observed him for several years, and we have used those conversations to formulate an opinion about his ideas instead of just going by what someone writes. The point of my post was not to debate your opinion about the guy, but to try and find out if you believe God can use people (any person) to heal the sick? For the record, Richard never claims to be a healer. If you ever in Tulsa for the Mid-Con and go up to him at a game, ask him for yourself. He'll say, "No. I don't heal people. God heals people. All I do is pray". No one responded because no one can deny what was written. Apparently you can't read very well from your own website about Mr.Roberts, the quotes of which I included on this board about his healing powers and acts of healing. So it is untrue that he does not claim to be a healer. You are just plain gullible and blind if you think otherwise. And he (Oral confirmed by boy Richard) claimed to have raised someone from the dead. Is that not healing or a miracle? Puhleese! Nobody at ORU responded to my posts not because my mind was made up. As you probably don't recall, I asked whether that stuff was true. Your own silence and others' silence revealed to me just about all that was necessary to conclude that those statements are probably true. God can do anything he wants whenever he wants and "use" whomever he wants. He wouldn't be God now would he if he couldn't? That's no marvelous revelation; it's inherent in the definition of who God is. Duh!
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Post by rick on Mar 14, 2006 19:27:39 GMT -5
All you know about Jesus is based on what somebody has written.
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Post by vcboys2000 on Mar 14, 2006 19:48:15 GMT -5
So it is untrue that he does not claim to be a healer. Ok Rick, you're the authority on the life and times of Oral and Richard. There is no way you can ever be wrong about anybody. Case dismissed.
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Post by vcboys2000 on Mar 14, 2006 19:58:54 GMT -5
All you know about Jesus is based on what somebody has written. But if I had the opportunity to be around Him when He walked the earth it wouldn't be only based upon what was written. I would formulate my opinion about him based on what I saw Him do and heard Him say. People did not always write or say only positive things about Jesus, but His disciples and family members knew him.
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Post by rick on Mar 14, 2006 20:04:24 GMT -5
So it is untrue that he does not claim to be a healer. Ok Rick, you're the authority on the life and times of Oral and Richard. There is no way you can ever be wrong about anybody. Case dismissed. Again, try to read and comprehend beyond a second grade level what he himself has already written about his ability to heal. Then you make a credible case against what has been written about him by more than a few sources and I'll reconsider. Otherwise, this guy is a fake in my mind and you are the gullible sheep being sent to slaughter for placing faith in a false prophet. You may not like that assessment but I think it is true. Many folks wanted to strangle Stephen and Jesus and Paul for telling the truth about false gospels and false prophets. So be it. And no, before you go there, I am not comparing myself to them in any way. My authority rests on the Truth, not myself.
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Post by vcboys2000 on Mar 14, 2006 20:31:38 GMT -5
and you are the gullible sheep being sent to slaughter for placing faith in a false prophet. Rick, For the record my faith isn't in Oral or Richard Roberts. If Richard decided tomorrow to turn his back on God I would be dissapointed, but not waivering in my faith in God. Now, I'm not going to insult you like you did me by saying I had a 2nd grade reading level. I'm just going to point out to you how I see what you read about Richard more as a problem with interpretation than reading comprehension. Let's say I was reading my Bible (I know you think we're heathens, but just try to imagine that I actually do read it ), and I came across a sentence in one of the headings in Acts that read, "Peter heals the blind man at the gate". When I read this, I know (because of the track record the Bible gives us on Peter) that Peter does not think that this man has been healed by his own power and strength. He knows he is not the 'Healer', but a vessel that God used. Here is the statement you mentioned you saw on ORU's website that you had in your earlier post: "And he (Oral confirmed by boy Richard) claimed to have raised someone from the dead. Is that not healing or a miracle? Puhleese!" Ok, now if I read something like this I interpret it the same way because I know what they believe about healing from the Bible (the signs that follow those that believe: laying hands on the sick and them getting better). Now it's funny because I've heard Richard say that he has prayed for people and seen nothing happen. Yet he still believes that God can heal people. This doesn't sound like someone that thinks it all about them.
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Post by rick on Mar 14, 2006 20:51:15 GMT -5
and you are the gullible sheep being sent to slaughter for placing faith in a false prophet. Rick, For the record my faith isn't in Oral or Richard Roberts. If Richard decided tomorrow to turn his back on God I would be dissapointed, but not waivering in my faith in God. Now, I'm not going to insult you like you did me by saying I had a 2nd grade reading level. I'm just going to point out to you how I see what you read about Richard more as a problem with interpretation than reading comprehension. Let's say I was reading my Bible (I know you think we're heathens, but just try to imagine that I actually do read it ), and I came across a sentence in one of the headings in Acts that read, "Peter heals the blind man at the gate". When I read this, I know (because of the track record the Bible gives us on Peter) that Peter does not think that this man has been healed by his own power and strength. He knows he is not the 'Healer', but a vessel that God used. Here is the statement you mentioned you saw on ORU's website that you had in your earlier post: "And he (Oral confirmed by boy Richard) claimed to have raised someone from the dead. Is that not healing or a miracle? Puhleese!" Ok, now if I read something like this I interpret it the same way because I know what they believe about healing from the Bible (the signs that follow those that believe: laying hands on the sick and them getting better). Now it's funny because I've heard Richard say that he has prayed for people and seen nothing happen. Yet he still believes that God can heal people. This doesn't sound like someone that thinks it all about them. vcboy: I have to hand it to you. If this were a heavyweight fight, it would have already been stopped because I have knocked you out several times and you have bloody mouses on your eyes and and can't see enough anymore to know where I am to hit me. Yet you keep swinging. I like that. But the fight is over and it's time to hang up your jock strap. You lost the argument on logic alone mainly because you have tried to duck, bob and weave rather than face the argument head on. You either show me the proof item-by-item that what has been written here is in any way false and back it up with solid evidence or I will have no other choice but to ignore you. You claim I did not respond to your questions so I did. But you haven't responded to mine. Talk with you only when you can put up or shut up.
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Post by rick on Mar 14, 2006 21:12:48 GMT -5
I am placing my original quote here so that the discussion can be related to the original purpose of the thread, which has veered off-topic. I would really like to see all of the fellows below get together on a plane and come to Valpo and do what so many of them claim they do all of the time on TV - i.e., heal, really heal, not some phony cold or cane-walker, or anxiety healing. Be real. I have a son who can't walk, can't use his hands, feet, legs, arms, nothing. I have to do everything for him from bathing to eating to dressing to bath-rooming to getting ready for work and bed, etc. (Which I don't mind at all frankly - I love the kid so much it's an honor to do it). But let's expose these phonies for who they are. Get Benny Hinn up here to Valpo and all of the other guys who put their hands on people's heads and they all flop back-wards and viol-la, they are healed. That is complete deceit and these guys are all phony charlatans who are just trying to get rich off of people's hurts and take advantage of the most vulnerable and weak people in the country - the elderly, the gullible, the young - it's disgusting!. Shame on every damned one of them!!!
Put up or shut Mr. Roberts!!
Here again is my challenge to Mr. Roberts and his son:
Ok, I have a challenge for Oral Roberts - or if his son is a healer - to him as well. Or any of the phonies on TV like Benny Hinn, Price, Hagin, Copeland, Tilton, Avanzini, Kenyon, Hickey, Capps, Savelle, Cerullo, Crouch, Jakes, or anyone else who takes other people's money in the name of God and claims to be a faith-healer or just a plain Christian who can heal (especially when the cameras are on):
I have a son with cerebral palsy and he is in a wheelchair. Could you please come to Valparaiso and heal him?(But only in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit) He is a wonderful young man who believes strongly in the Christ and God and has more faith than anyone I know.
Oh, and don't expect any money from me or Ryan. Jesus never collected any or asked for seed-faith money before or after a miracle or a healing, why should you?
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Post by rick on Mar 15, 2006 9:00:07 GMT -5
"Richard Roberts claims to be a conduit of healing power from God, but that is suspect, because, like his father and all the other current group of healing evangelists, he can only heal the invisible. Missing arms and legs don't miraculously reappear. Missing eyes are not restored and disfigurements are not corrected. Congenital physical defects are not erased and the mentally impaired are not made whole. He claims to heal that which even he cannot see, through the medium of his television broadcast. Night after night, he calls out healings for various diseases, never specifying the name of the person, or persons, being healed, but tells them to call him when they believe they have been healed. God tells Richard Roberts what kind of disease is being healed at the moment, but neglects to inform him of just who is being healed. The healing portions of the broadcast become so routine, that he falls into a trap of repetition, many times saying that God has told him there will be '...at least 16 people healed tonight..." Apparently God is specific up to the number 16, but after that he is not too sure'."
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Post by rick on Mar 15, 2006 9:03:46 GMT -5
Many times, while he is speaking, Richard Roberts will suddenly interrupt himself and say, "Yes Lord, I'll do that." The implication being that God has given him a revelation at that very moment, and how convenient that it would happen just when everyone can see it. God waits for the television show to broadcast and then begins to reveal many things through Richard Roberts. Richard Roberts' claim to a belief in continuing revelation from God is expressed almost nightly by his claims to receive knowledge about healings through the direct revelation of God.
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