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Post by wh on Oct 7, 2010 10:01:38 GMT -5
Cody Zeller has narrowed his choices down to Butler, IU and UNC. I was thinking about what rlh said in another thread that the NBA will find you regardless of where you play - if you’re good enough. While I generally agree with that assertion, I wonder if that’s completely accurate in Zeller’s case. •Without question, the center position is the weakest of all positions in the HL. We have a ton of quality guards, some quality 3’s, a handful of quality 4’s, another handful of 4’s playing out of position at the 5, and some small number of very average true 5’s. If he puts up big scoring and rebounding numbers, aren’t the sports analysts going to say ‘Yeah, but would he be doing that if he had to go up against quality big men night after night?’ That is a question mark that could stay with him throughout his collegiate career. •In an attempt to neutralize him, he would face far more “gimmick” defenses in the HL than in the B10 or ACC – zone defenses, box-and-one, double teams to deny him the ball, running a second defender at him when he gets the ball, using smaller, thicker defenders to bump and grind on him to wear him down, etc., etc. Who would want 4 years of that? How would that benefit his development for a future in professional basketball? Just wondering if anyone else has any other thoughts about this…
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Post by dylanrocks on Oct 7, 2010 11:21:43 GMT -5
"If you're good enough, the NBA will find you regardless of where you play."
That says it all.
Artis Gilmore went to Jacksonville, Scottie Pippen went to Central Arkansas and Dennis Rodman went to Southeastern Oklahoma State.
Gordon Hayward was chosen No. 9 in this year's draft.
If Cody does go to Butler, he'll get plenty of exposure because they'll be really good.
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Post by blackpantheruwm on Oct 8, 2010 12:57:03 GMT -5
And Ralph Sampson went to Virginia...wait...Virginia isn't a low-major? Huh. Wow. Wait...they were #1 in the country? Holy crap...well, I guess even Loyola has a national title...well. Things that make you go 'huh?'.
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Post by titlein2011 on Oct 9, 2010 8:03:52 GMT -5
In an attempt to neutralize him, he would face far more “gimmick” defenses in the HL than in the B10 or ACC – zone defenses, box-and-one, double teams to deny him the ball, running a second defender at him when he gets the ball, using smaller, thicker defenders to bump and grind on him to wear him down, etc., etc. Who would want 4 years of that? How would that benefit his development for a future in professional basketball? That could be done, but the result probably wouldn't be too favorable. Butler is entirely too deep to run stuff, consistently, that is going to allow for advantages at the other 4 spots. In short, you might stop Zeller from going 18 and 10, but Khyle Marshall and Chrishawn Hopkins just split a 40. I'm sure teams would try it though, they did for a while in 08/09 with Howard untill it was determined Hayward and Mack would just kill with people helping off.
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Post by motowntitan on Oct 9, 2010 11:50:50 GMT -5
In an attempt to neutralize him, he would face far more “gimmick” defenses in the HL than in the B10 or ACC – zone defenses, box-and-one, double teams to deny him the ball, running a second defender at him when he gets the ball, using smaller, thicker defenders to bump and grind on him to wear him down, etc., etc. Who would want 4 years of that? How would that benefit his development for a future in professional basketball? That could be done, but the result probably wouldn't be too favorable. Butler is entirely too deep to run stuff, consistently, that is going to allow for advantages at the other 4 spots. In short, you might stop Zeller from going 18 and 10, but Khyle Marshall and Chrishawn Hopkins just split a 40. I'm sure teams would try it though, they did for a while in 08/09 with Howard untill it was determined Hayward and Mack would just kill with people helping off. That worked well on Detroit last year- but that's because we didn't have a PG.
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Post by rlh on Oct 9, 2010 22:09:24 GMT -5
Zeller will NOT go to Butler.....book it !!!!
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Post by bbtds on Oct 10, 2010 8:02:58 GMT -5
Cody Zeller quote about Butler: "Their style of play is right down my alley. They play a lot like my high school team. They emphasize defense and take good shots on offense." Butler wins. Plays on a big stage a lot and with Zeller's presense can make another deep run in the NCAA tourney. What are the negatives compared to other programs where they sometimes cheat and the coaches leave and you only play with your fellow NBA bound teammates for a year? (At Butler you play with them for 2 years :-))
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Post by eddiec on Oct 10, 2010 20:15:03 GMT -5
Zeller will NOT go to Butler.....book it !!!! Any inside info or just a hunch?
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Post by rlh on Oct 10, 2010 22:13:09 GMT -5
Just a hunch based on his brothers and watching college basketball.....there is no way on an equal footing Butler competes year in and year out, especially recruiting wise, with the top Division I schools who also are after him. I don't mean any disrespect to Butler, I was rooting for them as much as anyone during the tournament, but that was a one time thing and probably won't happen again anytime soon.
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Post by valpo84 on Oct 13, 2010 4:31:55 GMT -5
Jon Edwards, Kent, and Chris Kamen, CMU, would be a couple of other centers that played at mid-majors whom the NBA found. Not lobbying for any direction just adding examples to the discussion.
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Post by milanmiracle on Oct 13, 2010 14:49:47 GMT -5
Just a hunch based on his brothers and watching college basketball.....there is no way on an equal footing Butler competes year in and year out, especially recruiting wise, with the top Division I schools who also are after him. I don't mean any disrespect to Butler, I was rooting for them as much as anyone during the tournament, but that was a one time thing and probably won't happen again anytime soon. If you mean making the championship game again was a one time thing, probably. However to I expect them to perform at level equal to or better than Gonzaga from this point forward. Butler is turning into a national program right before our eyes in much the same way Gonzaga did a decade ago. The fact that Cody Zellers three choices are North Carolina, IU and Butler speaks volumes.
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Post by zvillehaze on Oct 13, 2010 16:38:30 GMT -5
Just a hunch based on his brothers and watching college basketball.....there is no way on an equal footing Butler competes year in and year out, especially recruiting wise, with the top Division I schools who also are after him. I don't mean any disrespect to Butler, I was rooting for them as much as anyone during the tournament, but that was a one time thing and probably won't happen again anytime soon. Butler has been to the Sweet 16 three times in the last eight years ... IU has been to one since Cody Zeller has been out of diapers (and Butler actually beat them that season). In addition, those three Sweet 16s for Butler were basically three totally different teams (Willie Veasley being the only notable player around for both '07 and '10). Cody has reasons to pick IU over Butler, but your argument that Butler can't compete with IU isn't one of them.
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Post by rlh on Oct 13, 2010 21:09:03 GMT -5
Everything being equal, IU will out recruit Butler even with the success Butler has had the past several years. I don't mean any disrespect to Butler, but the facts are that IU is a more respected program, with a better history than Butler. Will Butler become the Midwest Gonzaga, I don't know....it will be interesting to see.
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Post by dylanrocks on Oct 13, 2010 23:00:23 GMT -5
Butler has already exceeded Gonzaga's greatest feat, reaching the Elite Eight under Dan Monson in 1999.
Perhaps Gonzaga should strive to attain Butler's lofty stature.
As for respect for the respective Hoosier state programs, which one do you see garnering more positive attention of late: the one that defeated Michigan State in the Final Four or the one that lost at home to Loyola of Maryland?
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Post by agibson on Oct 14, 2010 3:03:14 GMT -5
Going back to 1999, Gonzaga has: 12 appearances, 8 as a #9 seed or better, 3 at-large. Advancing 9 times. 15 wins. 5 Sweet 16's. In 12 seasons.
For Butler going back 12 seasons wouldn't quite be fair. (Picked that year for Gonzaga, and Butler had a no appearance and a first round exit in the first two years.)
When to start for Butler? 2001? 2003? 2007? Maybe it will be 2010.
Starting in 2001, Butler has: 6 appearances, 4 as a #9 seed or better, 3 at-large. Advancing 5 times. 11 wins. 3 Sweet 16's. In 10 seasons.
So, a remarkable string of successes. In many ways comparable, in various ways better than Gonzaga.
But, I'd say Butler hasn't quite achieved the same "dynasty" quality. Another three Sweet 16's in three or or four seasons? Then we're talking. That may well be achieved.
If they can _build_ on the success of last year's tournament run? And go on to equally great things? Then 2010 may really have been the beginning of something fabulous.
Time will tell.
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