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Post by agibson on Oct 14, 2010 3:19:42 GMT -5
As for IU, I guess we could go all Kyle Whelliston and start talking about the Red Line.
IU: $55M athletic budget, $7M men's basketball (15th in the nation!) Gonzaga: $13M athletic budget, $3.1M men's basketball (85th in nation) Butler: $11M athletic budget, $1.7M men's basketball (142nd in nation)
$$ clearly don't translate directly into wins, especially not in good years. But, I suspect they do mean a lot when it comes to building a name program and e.g. attracting recruits.
Whelliston might argue that Gonzaga has achieved Above the Red Line type national TV exposure, for example. I'm not sure Butler's quite there yet.
For next season Butler has CBS (1): Stanford ESPN (3): Louisville, Duke, Xavier ESPN2 (1): Detroit ESPNU (3): Detroit, Green Bay, Wright State
Gonzaga has ESPN (1): Illinois ESPN or ESPN2 (1): Memphis ESPN2 (10): San Diego State, Kansas State, Notre Dame, Baylor, Xavier, OK State, St. Mary's, Portland, Loyola Marymount, St. Mary's ESPNU or ESPN2 (1): Duke/Marquette ESPNU (1): Santa Clara
So, clearly Butler's doing very well - going to a national final helps! But 12 games on ESPN2 or better? 4 league games on ESPN2 or better? That's pretty nuts. Butler has a ways to go here. Time will tell.
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Post by buddog on Oct 14, 2010 8:29:39 GMT -5
Whelliston might argue that Gonzaga has achieved Above the Red Line type national TV exposure, for example. I'm not sure Butler's quite there yet. For next season Butler has CBS (1): Stanford ESPN (3): Louisville, Duke, Xavier ESPN2 (1): Detroit ESPNU (3): Detroit, Green Bay, Wright State Gonzaga has ESPN (1): Illinois ESPN or ESPN2 (1): Memphis ESPN2 (10): San Diego State, Kansas State, Notre Dame, Baylor, Xavier, OK State, St. Mary's, Portland, Loyola Marymount, St. Mary's ESPNU or ESPN2 (1): Duke/Marquette ESPNU (1): Santa Clara So, clearly Butler's doing very well - going to a national final helps! But 12 games on ESPN2 or better? 4 league games on ESPN2 or better? That's pretty nuts. Butler has a ways to go here. Time will tell. A correction is necessary - Butler has the potential for 3 more games on ESPN2/U in the Diamond Head Classic. Also, a little geographical perspective is needed. Gonzaga has a huge advantage due to the fact that they are on the west coast and their biggest competition for tv time in that area, the PAC10 conference, has an agreement with Fox Sports. If ESPN wants to show a late night game, it generally would be a west coast game and there isn't as much competition. Butler has to compete against the Big East/ACC/Big Ten/SEC/Big 12 etc... for tv time in eastern/central time zones. The fact that Butler is even close to Gonzaga in national tv appearances considering the overwhelming advantages that Gonzaga has is pretty impressive.
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Post by milanmiracle on Oct 14, 2010 17:30:26 GMT -5
Butler has already exceeded Gonzaga's greatest feat, reaching the Elite Eight under Dan Monson in 1999. Perhaps Gonzaga should strive to attain Butler's lofty stature. As for respect for the respective Hoosier state programs, which one do you see garnering more positive attention of late: the one that defeated Michigan State in the Final Four or the one that lost at home to Loyola of Maryland? And that's not even mentioning the Kelvin Sampson debacle...not exactly a positive picture for IU as of late. To say that Butler isn't swaying fans away from the Hoosiers would be wrong.
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Post by milanmiracle on Oct 14, 2010 17:41:23 GMT -5
As for IU, I guess we could go all Kyle Whelliston and start talking about the Red Line. IU: $55M athletic budget, $7M men's basketball (15th in the nation!) Gonzaga: $13M athletic budget, $3.1M men's basketball (85th in nation) Butler: $11M athletic budget, $1.7M men's basketball (142nd in nation) $$ clearly don't translate directly into wins, especially not in good years. But, I suspect they do mean a lot when it comes to building a name program and e.g. attracting recruits. Whelliston might argue that Gonzaga has achieved Above the Red Line type national TV exposure, for example. I'm not sure Butler's quite there yet. For next season Butler has CBS (1): Stanford ESPN (3): Louisville, Duke, Xavier ESPN2 (1): Detroit ESPNU (3): Detroit, Green Bay, Wright State Gonzaga has ESPN (1): Illinois ESPN or ESPN2 (1): Memphis ESPN2 (10): San Diego State, Kansas State, Notre Dame, Baylor, Xavier, OK State, St. Mary's, Portland, Loyola Marymount, St. Mary's ESPNU or ESPN2 (1): Duke/Marquette ESPNU (1): Santa Clara So, clearly Butler's doing very well - going to a national final helps! But 12 games on ESPN2 or better? 4 league games on ESPN2 or better? That's pretty nuts. Butler has a ways to go here. Time will tell. While not national programing, having your games televised on MyIndy/WISH TV doesn't hurt in the exposure department. Indianapolis was/is primarily an IU dominated town, but you can see that starting to change with all the Butler success. I think the fact that you can see Butler play most of their home games over the air is a good thing.
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Post by bbtds on Oct 15, 2010 8:26:58 GMT -5
A friend told me that Tom Crean was introduced at the Michigan - IU football game (60,000 plus fans) along with the IU basketball players. When Crean tried to motivate the fans to stand & cheer his team most IU fans declined. They did applaud loudly but it became clear that IU football is probably on the same standing as IU basketball at this moment. IU football can compete with much of the Big Ten in football. IU basketball can not compete with as much of the Big Ten in basketball. If Crean can reverse the fortunes of IU basketball he could bring the program a lot farther than the football team could ever go as far as fan exuberance and exposure. IU basketball is way down. Butler basketball is way up. The potential for IU basketball goes a lot farther than Butler basketball due to the conference and money spent. We can appreciate what Butler basketball has done to advance the exposure and fan popularity of the school but it will never actually match IU in potential.
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Post by CO_VU_Fan on Oct 15, 2010 14:33:14 GMT -5
A friend told me that Tom Crean was introduced at the Michigan - IU football game (60,000 plus fans) along with the IU basketball players. When Crean tried to motivate the fans to stand & cheer his team most IU fans declined. They did applaud loudly but it became clear that IU football is probably on the same standing as IU basketball at this moment. IU football can compete with much of the Big Ten in football. IU basketball can not compete with as much of the Big Ten in basketball. What??? Memorial Stadium holds less than 53K, and it was a sellout - far short of 60K. "IU football can compete...". Give me a break. The 9 seasons from '86 - '94 were the most competitive for IU. Since then, not so much. The last 8 years IU has finished 1-7 in conference 6 times, and 3-5 twice. I hardly call that competitive. IU will be lucky to win one Big Ten game this year - their best chance is Northwestern. Basketball, while down the last few years, will always be king at IU. The basketball program will be competitive soon. The football program - not so soon. Thanks for the laugh.
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Post by milanmiracle on Oct 19, 2010 12:32:05 GMT -5
A friend told me that Tom Crean was introduced at the Michigan - IU football game (60,000 plus fans) along with the IU basketball players. When Crean tried to motivate the fans to stand & cheer his team most IU fans declined. They did applaud loudly but it became clear that IU football is probably on the same standing as IU basketball at this moment. IU football can compete with much of the Big Ten in football. IU basketball can not compete with as much of the Big Ten in basketball. What??? Memorial Stadium holds less than 53K, and it was a sellout - far short of 60K. "IU football can compete...". Give me a break. The 9 seasons from '86 - '94 were the most competitive for IU. Since then, not so much. The last 8 years IU has finished 1-7 in conference 6 times, and 3-5 twice. I hardly call that competitive. IU will be lucky to win one Big Ten game this year - their best chance is Northwestern. Basketball, while down the last few years, will always be king at IU. The basketball program will be competitive soon. The football program - not so soon. Thanks for the laugh. I've got to agree here. IU football and success, not so much. IU basketball has history and tradition on thier side, especially when compared to the football program. I fully expect IU(football) to schedule Valpo for a non conference win in the near future, as that run in with Arkansas State was a little too close for comfort (2 point win).
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Post by eddiec on Nov 10, 2010 16:01:20 GMT -5
Zeller announcement tomorrow at 1:05 PM (EDT).
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Post by milanmiracle on Nov 10, 2010 17:20:18 GMT -5
Because of the way it's scheduled, I am lead to believe it's either IU or Butler. Nobody would be stupid enough to have a press conference to announce they're leaving the state, would they?
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Post by eddiec on Nov 10, 2010 18:28:47 GMT -5
Because of the way it's scheduled, I am lead to believe it's either IU or Butler. Nobody would be stupid enough to have a press conference to announce they're leaving the state, would they? Hard to get a read on this one. Tyler Zeller made his announcement for UNC from a Washington IN restaurant, so who knows. Cody's announcement is being made from the high school and is open only to media ... probably a good idea.
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Post by valpofan56 on Nov 10, 2010 20:54:06 GMT -5
Nobody would be stupid enough to have a press conference to announce they're leaving the state, would they? I can't think of anybody that would do that :lol
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Post by vu72 on Nov 11, 2010 15:58:30 GMT -5
Zhttp://www.indystar.com/article/20101111/SPORTS/101111013/Coveted-basketball-recruit-Cody-Zeller-to-play-for-IU?odyssey=tab|topnews|text|Sportseller to IU--whew!!
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Post by wh on Nov 11, 2010 16:21:22 GMT -5
Realistically, this was Butler's one best shot to land a top 25 player. If Zeller turned out to be a star and elevated Butler's profile even further, it could have led to other big-time recruits and continued deep runs in the Dance. Not that I'm crying for them, but this is a big "near miss."
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Post by stlvufan on Nov 11, 2010 21:02:59 GMT -5
Zhttp://www.indystar.com/article/20101111/SPORTS/101111013/Coveted-basketball-recruit-Cody-Zeller-to-play-for-IU?odyssey=tab|topnews|text|Sportseller to IU--whew!! Bummer. Seriously. I'm not being sarcastic in the least. That being said, Butler will take this in stride and hardly miss a beat.
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Post by rlh on Nov 11, 2010 21:36:02 GMT -5
I never seriously thought he'd go to Butler, as I said before.....when you can choose between the Big 10 and the Horizon League (if indeed they were in the mix)...the Big 10 is going to win most times
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