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Post by rlh on Jan 8, 2011 8:56:03 GMT -5
I thought it might be interesting to discuss the low student turnout for most of the games lately. This has been a decided issue for several years, but it didn't used to be that way. When we were in the Mid-Con, and winning championships, we almost always had the student section full...not sure if it was because of active VUCRU leadership or what, but we very seldom had less than 2-3 hundred students in attendance. They had the same draw on their time, i.e. studies, clubs, fraternities and sororities, as students have now...what is the difference? I would be interested to know...because when a good student section is there, it adds to the atmosphere and truly does help the team
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Post by jerome1 on Jan 8, 2011 8:59:39 GMT -5
Winning regularly cures many many ills!
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Post by rlh on Jan 8, 2011 9:14:26 GMT -5
Since 1993, Valpo has only had 3 losing seasons, and only one that was terrible in the conference....there has to be more to it than that......
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Post by jerome1 on Jan 8, 2011 9:21:17 GMT -5
Since 1993, Valpo has only had 3 losing seasons, and only one that was terrible in the conference....there has to be more to it than that...... Winning regularly.....not avoiding losing seasons....avoiding mediocre seasons too. We are still in the midst of possibly having a mediocre season. Winning record but not coming close to winning the HL tourney or getting a chance to go to the NCAA Tourney. That is a huge reason why some object so much to the HL tourney format. Our friend from France/Switzerland, agibson, said it well: I guess too much of my Valpo fandom comes from the "dominate the Mid-Con" years. It was nice to get to the tournament he went on to say that he wants to believe in the HL's way of doing things but it was nice and that appeals to the students in general.
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Post by crusaderguy08 on Jan 8, 2011 10:11:46 GMT -5
There are several points I'd like to make here, some specific to last night, some more general in nature:
Last Night:
I considered the student turnout last night a pretty big success. There were at least 250 students there. Given the circumstances, that number is pretty solid. The snow, opponent, and a significant sorority event on campus all worked against getting students there last night. However, I would guarantee it is the largest student crowd we have had for a Youngstown game since we joined the HL. One of the issues is that there are a lot of students who choose not to sit in the traditional student section and instead sit in section E, in the mezz, or just stand on the track, making it appear they aren't at the game. If you noticed last night, section E was nearly full, the left section K was full, and the middle section L was nearly full. The only bare spot was to the right of the basket. Keep in mind that between the 4 sections that comprise the student section, there are nearly 600 seats. Overall, given recent history and the circumstances I outlined above, I believe the student turnout last night was very good. Based on numbers alone I would feel confident to compare the turnout last night with what you would see at any other school in the league when they play against YSU (especially if the comparison was made using percentage of the student body in attendance).
Overall:
Student attendance is a complicated animal that varies depending on a wide range of factors. I believe the most critical factor in the equation is winning. Programs that win consistently and play in the post-season have more student interest than those that don't. I think this is reflected in our student section. It seems to me that student attendance has dissipated gradually since Valpo last played in the NCAA tournament, which happened to be the year before I came to Valpo as a student. With that said, I think some of the other factors include marquee wins over ranked opponents or "major conference" teams (Valpo has had zero in the last 12 years unless you count Washington), the opponent on any given night, the day of the week the game is played on, any promotions being run to entice students, weather, and other major events on campus.
I'd like to point out also that I don't think it makes much sense to pass judgment on the student support we've seen this year because of the way the schedule has fallen to this point. Up to now, we have played 8 home games, 4 against non-DI teams, 2 while the students were on break, 1 against the worst team in the conference, and 1 against Purdue. We saw a pretty good turnout, in my opinion, for both the home opener when the court was dedicated and last night's game vs. YSU. We saw an outstanding turnout for the Purdue game with about 25% of the student body in attendance. Can someone tell me how the student turnout this year could be categorized as bad? Can you blame the students for not showing up to watch the team play IUN, PNC, and Aurora? I certainly don't blame them.
The bottom line is, until we begin to win consistently and challenge for an HL title year in and year out, combined with more than one marquee win in a 12 year stretch, I think you will see student attendance about equal to what I expect the rest of the season. The team has to give the students a reason to take notice and invest their time in coming to games. If you look around our conference, I feel comfortable where Valpo stands in regard to student attendance. The only school who has us beat in this area consistently is Butler (for obvious reasons that mesh perfectly with my previous points). Other than Butler, we have the best student support in the HL from what I have witnessed and I think that will stay true into the future barring any sudden changes to the HL landscape.
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Post by wh on Jan 8, 2011 11:39:16 GMT -5
You said a lot of students attend, but don't sit in the student section. That's good that they're there, but it doesn't have nearly the overall positive effect that sitting in the student section helping to create a great atmosphere would. Questions - Do we still have a student section leader like there used to be with the VUCRU? Do we have a "Valpo Hoops" type individual who encourages students to sit in the student section, works with the athletic dept. to create student promotions, organizes cheers, etc.? Positive results require more than just motivation (a winning record) to be truly successful. They need leadership, organization, and formal structure to "pass the baton" from year to year. Is that in place?
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Post by jj on Jan 8, 2011 11:46:17 GMT -5
08: You said there was a significent sorority event taking place on campus last night. Do you happen to know how actively the Phi Delts were attempting to get female pledges? Would be a good fit for them.
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Post by crusaderguy08 on Jan 8, 2011 11:48:33 GMT -5
08: You said there was a significent sorority event taking place on campus last night. Do you happen to know how actively the Phi Delts were attempting to get female pledges? Would be a good fit for them. I had no association with the Greek system during my time as a student, so your comment has no meaning to me. Care to explain? I'm assuming it's a backhanded remark aimed at whoever the Phi Delts are. If that's the case, you may as well keep your explanation to yourself because I doubt anyone here cares to read it.
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Post by crusaderguy08 on Jan 8, 2011 11:53:09 GMT -5
You said a lot of students attend, but don't sit in the student section. That's good that they're there, but it doesn't have nearly the overall positive effect that sitting in the student section helping to create a great atmosphere would. Questions - Do we still have a student section leader like there used to be with the VUCRU? Do we have a "Valpo Hoops" type individual who encourages students to sit in the student section, works with the athletic dept. to create student promotions, organizes cheers, etc.? Positive results require more than just motivation (a winning record) to be truly successful. They need leadership, organization, and formal structure to "pass the baton" from year to year. Is that in place? VUCRU, as it was organized in the past, no longer exists. When ValpoHoops, myself, and several others graduated about the same time (2007 and 2008 years), there was no one there to "hand the baton" to. There is a group of students working hard this year through IMC to get back what was lost over the last two years as far as organization and leadership goes. It will take some time to rebuild and there just aren't many people on campus who display the level of loyalty people like ValpoHoops displayed while he was in school. Those who do either work for the team as managers or are on the IMC team trying to improve things.
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Post by govalpogo on Jan 8, 2011 12:34:19 GMT -5
IMC has dubbed the student section "Valparaizone." I always liked "The Drew Crew" personally. The student athletics division of IMC is indeed working hard to re boost attendance by having assigned student section leaders (who wear lime green shirts) and by having pregame parties before home games. These are good ideas, however, the pregame parties are very poorly attended and lacking spirit and the section leaders DON'T DO ANYTHING. I started most of the cheers last night...and I'm not a very boisterous individual.
A general feeling that I get from the student body is that they are afraid of getting excited about any of our sports teams. Perhaps we are afraid of looking silly in front of our peers, we think our studies are more important, or we just don't think that Valpo has serious sports teams. Beginning the year with football doesn't help that sentiment. The honeymoon period of the sweet 16 run is long gone and most students do not keep tabs on Valpo sports. Most students my age remember one thing about basketball...Jared Lloyd missing that free throw which sent us to heartbreaking defeat against Butler in Jan 08. And this alone has been enough to keep many senior students from opening their wounded hearts back up to the crusaders. Sad, I know...but let's face it...Valpo is an academic minded school. If students wanted athletics as a main focus during their education they would have gone to Purdue or Notre Dame or another bigger name school.
There are ~500 of us spanning over 50 years (thank you JJ) that are passionate enough about Valpo Sports to have this board. I believe we are in the minority.
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mj
Bench Warmer
Posts: 124
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Post by mj on Jan 8, 2011 12:54:46 GMT -5
The one complaint you always hear from students is that there isn't anything to do on Valpo's campus. You hear how boring it is. And then when you have a basketball game, nobody shows up. I guess everyone must be sitting in the dorms watching the game on HLN.
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Post by okinawatyphoon on Jan 8, 2011 13:15:22 GMT -5
Great explanation, crusaderguy. I think you made a lot of valid points.
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Post by crusaderguy08 on Jan 8, 2011 15:05:04 GMT -5
IMC has dubbed the student section "Valparaizone." I always liked "The Drew Crew" personally. Just for clarity sake, let me point out that the student athletics team comprised fully of students chose the new name, not IMC administrators that everyone likes to pile on. I give the students a lot of credit for making some needed, but sometimes unpopular changes, and standing behind them.
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Post by rlh on Jan 8, 2011 17:20:53 GMT -5
IMC has dubbed the student section "Valparaizone." I always liked "The Drew Crew" personally. Just for clarity sake, let me point out that the student athletics team comprised fully of students chose the new name, not IMC administrators that everyone likes to pile on. I give the students a lot of credit for making some needed, but sometimes unpopular changes, and standing behind them. Not picking on anyone, but if something is not working, and the changes and mascot obviously are not...then you need to back it up and see what did work. The VU CRU was popular and with Joy Bowker, Dan Robertson etal leading the way, had a very good effect on the atmosphere and excitement of the games...win or lose. I don't know anyone at the IMC, but I think they need to take a look at what they are doing and analyze whether or not it is working. It doesn't seem to be....in this area at least.
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Post by crusaderguy08 on Jan 8, 2011 18:23:13 GMT -5
Did you even read my post above Dick? I think the jury is still out on this year's level of student support, but I was pleased with the turnout last night.
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