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Post by rick on Jan 4, 2007 9:18:09 GMT -5
by a board administrator who requests that I remove my signature and avatar with mention of Vagina monologues because some posters are uncomfortable with it - and my response: Why would anyone be bothered by something which is presented to all students on campus? This is something that the university allows and thinks is appropriate to invite all students to see. Is the fact that the content of the play being revealed is something for which posters (alums?) and others within the university should be embarrassed the reason for wanting to ban me? I don't understand why there should be any problem. To me what should be censored is the content of the play, not the messenger of that content. I find your note to be a caving in to others who are embarrassed by something that is completely acceptable to the university and the administration and therefore is not something offensive or crude of which I should be warned or threatened to be banned under the guidelines of this forum. So I will not remove any of what you are asking me to remove until the university decides that this play should be removed from the university because the way the administration views it in allowing it to be shown, the play and its content is acceptable and worthwhile. If it (Valpo U) thinks the content is worthy of being viewed and it thinks it is an appropriate message for young college students, why would you care about a few whiners on this board who take some offense? Ban me and censor me if you must but this is a moral position I am taking and I'm surprised you are so easily influenced and pressured that you would not take the same position if you agree with me that this stuff is smut and has no place on a Christian campus. Consequently, I don't have any choice but to reject your request. And if you choose to ban me, do it permanently because if you just ban me for a short period of time, I will come back and do the same thing until this play is no longer on campus. Rick
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Post by rick on Jan 4, 2007 13:22:27 GMT -5
Exactly what bothers these several posters? Is there something untrue in the tagline? Why don't they come forward and speak their minds? Are they embarrassed about something which is offered and approved by the administration? What is it that bothers you several posters? What's wrong with telling the truth and letting the chips fall where they may? You are supposed to have received a liberal arts education. You should be open-minded. Why are you bothered? Please have the courage to be public about what bothers you. Perhaps the administration would like to know what is so troubling about this smut-play. They must think you folks are closed-minded and narrow hics for objecting to this wonderful play. And why not tell everyone what the content is? If there is nothing about which to be ashamed, why should it matter so much to all of these several posters and I'm sure others who work at the university? Isn't the pursuit of truth a noble and beautiful endeavor? Why let the truth embarrass you?
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Post by rlh on Jan 4, 2007 15:56:11 GMT -5
I am one of those that protested Rick and the reason is simple. It is the use of an insulting and totally inappropriate word for the female sexual organs that concerned me. I find it demeaning and certainly not called for in this context. You could easily have gotten your message across without using that word and been just as effective. The interesting part is I basically support your premise and am too concerned that this "play" is being allowed at Valparaiso University. I have seen a part of it when it was on HBO several months ago and find it neither uplifting to women or a banner of feminism. It is filth pure and simple. Be that as it may, your use of the slang word for a woman's sexual organs was uncalled for and deeply offending to me and apparently others. Somehow you just don't seem to get it. There are ways to offer your "insights" into some of these subjects that make sense and are justified....this is not one of them. So fight the good fight....storm the ramparts....but let's at least use good taste and judgement while doing so.
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Post by valpotentate on Jan 4, 2007 16:37:34 GMT -5
It's a trap! Personally your language doesn't faze me, but you have broken the rules of the board. I direct you to the opening statement of the Proboard rules: You agree, through your use of this forum, that you will not post any material which is false, defamatory, inaccurate, abusive, vulgar, hateful, harassing, obscene, profane, sexually oriented, threatening, invasive of a person's privacy, or otherwise in violation of ANY law. Use of the c-word and some of the other language you have used is therefore illegal on this board. As you have repeatedly noted, that language is not apparently illegal on a Valparaiso University stage. Congratulations for making the distinction. It's up to the mods to decide what to do with you, but if you get kicked off it will be because you decided to break the rules of this board.
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Post by valpotentate on Jan 4, 2007 16:44:43 GMT -5
I feel I should add that I generally enjoy your participation on the board. It can be fun to have a provacateur (a la Chi-Man) who stirs things up. However, it is unfortunate that you appear at times to lose the ability to utilize the filter that is necessary when posting on an internet message board. If you refuse to do so (as it seems you are?) I would agree with banning you.
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Post by rick on Jan 4, 2007 17:15:55 GMT -5
I am one of those that protested Rick and the reason is simple. It is the use of an insulting and totally inappropriate word for the female sexual organs that concerned me. I find it demeaning and certainly not called for in this context. You could easily have gotten your message across without using that word and been just as effective. The interesting part is I basically support your premise and am too concerned that this "play" is being allowed at Valparaiso University. I have seen a part of it when it was on HBO several months ago and find it neither uplifting to women or a banner of feminism. It is filth pure and simple. Be that as it may, your use of the slang word for a woman's sexual organs was uncalled for and deeply offending to me and apparently others. Somehow you just don't seem to get it. There are ways to offer your "insights" into some of these subjects that make sense and are justified....this is not one of them. So fight the good fight....storm the ramparts....but let's at least use good taste and judgement while doing so. My use of the word is within the context of satire and illustrating absurdity by being absurd. You should view it as such. It's not the way I usually write or speak. But for making a point, it's very effective to those wed to the status quo. Loosen up. I'm not the problem. I'm just pointing out what the problem is in my own way which may not be your way.
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Post by rick on Jan 4, 2007 17:24:10 GMT -5
It's a trap! Personally your language doesn't faze me, but you have broken the rules of the board. I direct you to the opening statement of the Proboard rules: You agree, through your use of this forum, that you will not post any material which is false, defamatory, inaccurate, abusive, vulgar, hateful, harassing, obscene, profane, sexually oriented, threatening, invasive of a person's privacy, or otherwise in violation of ANY law. Use of the c-word and some of the other language you have used is therefore illegal on this board. As you have repeatedly noted, that language is not apparently illegal on a Valparaiso University stage. Congratulations for making the distinction. It's up to the mods to decide what to do with you, but if you get kicked off it will be because you decided to break the rules of this board. First of all it's not MY language. I'm only transmitting what is said in the play. Who says that the word C-U-N-T is obscene, sexually oriented(vagina is a "state of mind"), or vulgar? Those words have not been defined here. (What is obscene, vulgar, or sexually oriented?)And since they are acceptable words for young students at Valpo University to hear at a play approved by the university, any forum associated with the university should be held to the same standard. I'm not sure what Christian standard is being upheld mind you, but one can only tread on these gray areas by considering the overall university community's standards. And they have no problem with the use of the word C-U-N-T, which is chanted over and over on university grounds in February for three straight days without any objection by the university administration, faculty, or students. Yes I know you would like to ban me. I've come not to take much of what you say very seriously anymore.
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Post by valpo04 on Jan 4, 2007 17:38:35 GMT -5
That my friend, is your opinion. Bottom line... the word you put in your signature is vulgar, anyone from anywhere (including younger folks) should be able to come to this board, become involved or informed on sports at Valparaiso University without worrying about a play that is being performed on campus (that you have not seen, I have) or seeing words that are not appropriate. Whether or not you think they are appropriate for college crowds is irrelevant to Valparaiso sports.
Like I told you before, say what you want here, but do not bring this discussion into the sports side of this board again.
Period.
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Post by rick on Jan 4, 2007 17:43:36 GMT -5
That my friend, is your opinion. Bottom line... the word you put in your signature is vulgar, anyone from anywhere (including younger folks) should be able to come to this board, become involved or informed on sports at Valparaiso University without worrying about a play that is being performed on campus (that you have not seen, I have) or seeing words that are not appropriate. Whether or not you think they are appropriate for college crowds is irrelevant to Valparaiso sports. Like I told you before, say what you want here, but do not bring this discussion into the sports side of this board again. Period. 1. I have seen the play. 2. I removed the word C-U-N-T from my signature just like you asked me to do. 3. I have not brought this discussion to the sports board after receiving your command not to do so. I brought it here where you wanted it brought.
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Post by rick on Jan 4, 2007 17:57:44 GMT -5
I offer a challenge to anyone who thinks that this play, Vagina Monologues, is vulgar or vile or obscene and who has the courage of their convictions to attempt to influence the administration to use another avenue in attempting to condemn violence against women. Here it is: There is an organization in Valpo called the Christian Community Coalition (I think that's the correct name). They oversee the homeless shelter and one or two of the houses for battered and/or mentally challenged women. If you can convince the university to stop this smegma-fest of a play and create another annual play or annual fund raising opportunity of some kind on the university campus to replace the filthy play called Vagina Monologues, my family will donate $1,000 to that organization. The play must be one in which Christian values are highlighted, not female genitalia and is dignified and tasteful. I hope you take the challenge. Try doing something worthwhile so that both the means and ends are good things, not just the ends. This public offer will stay open until either the Vagina Monologues is permanently removed from the Valparaiso University Campus***(and I will make the $1,000 donation) or 45 days from today's date (the date on which the offer will expire and no donation will be made), whichever comes first. ***A formal statement by the university permanently banning the play on university grounds must be made in writing.
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Post by valpo04 on Jan 4, 2007 18:05:53 GMT -5
That my friend, is your opinion. Bottom line... the word you put in your signature is vulgar, anyone from anywhere (including younger folks) should be able to come to this board, become involved or informed on sports at Valparaiso University without worrying about a play that is being performed on campus (that you have not seen, I have) or seeing words that are not appropriate. Whether or not you think they are appropriate for college crowds is irrelevant to Valparaiso sports. Like I told you before, say what you want here, but do not bring this discussion into the sports side of this board again. Period. 1. I have seen the play. 2. I removed the word C-U-N-T from my signature just like you asked me to do. 3. I have not brought this discussion to the sports board after receiving your command not to do so. I brought it here where you wanted it brought. I have no problem with your discussion of it here, I am just defending my actions at least, as an admin, since your post implied that we should allow that word in your signature.
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Post by rlh on Jan 4, 2007 18:36:16 GMT -5
And yet you were able to use the offending word again....that's the major problem Rick....you ARE the problem and you refuse to acknowledge it. You need the attention just like a little child. That's the only reason I can figure as to why you continually act this way. It is beyond reason that all of us our wrong and your are right. Your constant need of attention is childish and boring. Grow Up.....
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Post by rick on Jan 4, 2007 18:37:16 GMT -5
And yet you were able to use the offending word again....that's the major problem Rick....you ARE the problem and you refuse to acknowledge it. You need the attention just like a little child. That's the only reason I can figure as to why you continually act this way. It is beyond reason that all of us our wrong and your are right. Your constant need of attention is childish and boring. Grow Up.....
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Post by valpotentate on Jan 5, 2007 8:18:22 GMT -5
Who says that the word C-U-N-T is obscene, sexually oriented(vagina is a "state of mind"), or vulgar? Those words have not been defined here. (What is obscene, vulgar, or sexually oriented?) Yes I know you would like to ban me. I've come not to take much of what you say very seriously anymore. Sometimes there are points in an argument/discussion where you can clearly see that one side has lost. Attempting to say that the c-word is not obscene or vulgar is one of those moments. Sorry, Rick, but I think you've lost it.
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Post by valporun on Jan 5, 2007 8:32:22 GMT -5
Rick, I know you're doing your best to get your point across, I can't deny you this, but you honestly need to find the time to setup an appointment with President Harre and the various powers that be in the administration to voice your concerns about this play being held on what is supposed to be a Christian campus that lives by the Lutheran moral. Also, send daily emails and letters with your opinions voiced in their directions. I'm not saying that you were wrong to voice your opinion here at all, it is more in how you worded various parts of your opinion. There are many men and women that would rather not see such vulgar and inconsiderate words used in writing where many people come to get an idea of what VU is all about. Some of the potential recruits or future Crusader students and parents may come to this board..see what you say and think that VU is a horribly un-Christian campus. Sure, its not 100% Moral like you want it to be, but I agree that VU is an inappropriate place for a play like the Vagina Monologues to be held, and VU has never been known for good Christian theater work. I think this is what the moderators are trying to tell you more than anything else. Just take your opinions and voice them more where they need to be heard, and here is not one of them in the fashion that you let yourself get to with this topic.
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