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Post by valpo84 on Feb 8, 2011 23:13:47 GMT -5
Bigdwsu, agree on NKU.
Also, Evansville does not bring much to Valpo or the conference other than an old ICC and Midwestern City/Collegiate Conference rival, which is way in the past. And as much as I like Oakland and Coach Kampe, that program can quickly decline once Kampe moves on and we already have a school in Detroit.
SLU makes a bunch of sense, another private school in a major metro area, good facilities. No natural rivalries in MVC. Was a member of the old pre-Horizon conference, the MCC, so has old ties to a number of teams (Loyola, Detroit and Butler). And, for Valpo, gives us a visiting destination that is in our alumni/prospective students sweet spot. Dayton makes a lot of sense but no need to double up on the Dayton area from a marketing perspective.
I'll throw a wild card out there -- for exposure in a market and its history, Belmont would be an additional candidate. Nashville has Vandy, but Belmont has a nice following and has a good connection to Valpo, Butler, Loyola, Detroit private school part of our conference.
Unless a program adds marketing advantages or a big name historic basketball program, the conference really doesn't need additional members.
Interestingly, on a somewhat related note, is how Gonzaga is doing recently. They are now receiving competition in their own conference and it will not be as easy a road going forward. St. Mary's is now garnering a lot of the attention as the darling out west of mid-majors. Gonzaga had its way for quite awhile in that conference, like Butler, but now the rest of the league is catching up.
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Post by valpospartan on Feb 8, 2011 23:28:55 GMT -5
Most of the schools mentioned here would preclude bus trips for many HL teams, so the transportation advantage would evaporate.
Butler in the Big Ten - laughable.
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Post by vuweathernerd on Feb 8, 2011 23:37:28 GMT -5
stl's only 5 1/2 hours or so (at least the way i drive), and nashville's only 7. isn't that about as far as green bay for us?
for comparison's sake-anybody know how long it takes detroit, csu, or ysu to get to green bay? or do they fly that one?
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Post by crusaderjoe on Feb 9, 2011 2:25:40 GMT -5
I think an HL play to get Northern Kentucky University would be interesting, assuming it decides to make the transition from D-II to D-I. NKU brings another state and market (Cincy) to the geographical footprint of the conference. Their basketball facility is superior and I believe they have one of the strongest men's soccer programs in D-II, which is important to a conference like the HL since the HL is a fairly competitive soccer conference because dollars generally do not have to be diverted towards football. Nothing against Oakland by any means but NKU is a better fit, IMO. NKU would have to double their total athletic budget every year to get anywhere near the HL average. And they would NOT bring the Cincy market to the HL. People in Cincy follow Xavier, UC, and UK. NKU gets less coverage than high school sports in Cincy. NKU's own D-I transitional feasibility study specifically mentions the HL, so I am sure the folks there are well aware of how many dollars it would need in order to be viable and competitive. As to your comments about coverage, I understand where you are coming from but I have to disagree with you a little on NKU. Maybe their coverage now is terrible but I think that would change if they made the move to D-I. I think that NKU is in a somewhat similar situation as Valpo in that it is a part of a larger greater metropolitan area, near a major city, but physically located in an adjoining state to that major city, which makes geography unique but also awkward. However, I distinctly remember getting VU basketball scores from the Chicago news stations every once in awhile years ago and this was during some of VU's transitional years in the '80s. If a school like Valpo which was 50 miles away from Chicago could get some exposure back then in a major market, there is no reason to believe that NKU, a school that is four times the size of VU and eight miles from downtown Cincy could not once it makes its move. I would have to believe that Valpo only received that coverage because it was D-I. I am not suggesting that NKU would seize the Cincy market in its entirety but I'm not sure it would make sense to write off NKU this quickly. |
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Post by valpo84 on Feb 9, 2011 3:06:27 GMT -5
Unfortunately, I think NKU should be way down on any list of potential Horizon League schools. NKU would be the 3d college team in Cincy metro at best. Why settle for that? In fact, when looking at coverage, X and UC will always garner the most coverage, then UK, Miami, the Ville and even OSU are going to get the attention first. NKU just doesn't carry enough swag especially as a new D1 program in a highly competitive league. The Horizon would be giving NKU way more than NKU would be giving the Horizon. Plus it starts to throw the private-public balance out of whack. No offense to NKU, it's a decent school with decent facilities. Reminds me of Wright State in that respect. And as to coverage, NKU is only 8 miles from downtown Cincy and receives little attention. Valpo is in first place in the Horizon and having the best season of any Chicagoland college hoops team other than ND (if you count that as Chicagoland) and has the Chicago Tribune noticed yet.
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Post by bigdwsu on Feb 9, 2011 7:22:48 GMT -5
NKU's own D-I transitional feasibility study specifically mentions the HL, so I am sure the folks there are well aware of how many dollars it would need in order to be viable and competitive. There have been articles about NKU, N. Dakota St, S. Dakota St, IPFW, IUPUI, and Oakland wanting to join the HL in the past year or so. Just because a team thinks they are good enough for the HL doesn't mean we want them or that they would be competitive in our conference. YSU was added to the HL because the HL needed another member for certain sports to qualify for an automatic bid to the NCAA tournament (I think baseball and a few other sports, but I don't remember). The thought was that even though their athletic budget was inferior for every sport, YSU would be able to increase it over time because being in the HL would increase their bottom line. That didn't happen. If anything, they have just put more money into football. I don't think the HL is going to be foolish enough again to gamble on a team that doesn't already have sufficient finances or facilities. The only reason we should add a team is to help make the HL a multi-bid conference. If adding a team does not make us a consistent multi-bid conference, we are just going to end up splitting up our revenue into smaller pieces. |
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Post by oklahoamamick on Feb 9, 2011 7:45:27 GMT -5
I think adding NKU would be a similar situation that happened in the Summit League with Centenary. If the HL was looking to expand, (Which is has not announced that it is looking to) they go after SLU or Depaul. I don't see Depaul leaving the Big East though...
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Post by crusadermoe on Feb 9, 2011 11:10:52 GMT -5
SLU would be a huge asset to Horizon League. Why would they join HL? Seems a bad move to them, but........3 reasons make it possible:
1) They get a quicker chance to become an NCAA bid contender
2) Non-revenue sports get shorter & less expensive trips
3) SLU might want a higher profile in midwest cities Chicago, Indy, Detroit, Milwaukee
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Post by vu72 on Feb 9, 2011 13:07:52 GMT -5
SLU would be a huge asset to Horizon League. Why would they join HL? Seems a bad move to them, but........3 reasons make it possible: 1) They get a quicker chance to become an NCAA bid contender 2) Non-revenue sports get shorter & less expensive trips 3) SLU might want a higher profile in midwest cities Chicago, Indy, Detroit, Milwaukee And, Coach Majerus would much rather be in the Horizon or the Valley. |
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mj
Bench Warmer
Posts: 124
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Post by mj on Feb 9, 2011 13:18:38 GMT -5
It pretty obvious that SLU shouldn't be in the A-10 beginning with geography reasons. But I'm not sure how excited SLU would be to "drop down" a conference to the Missouri Valley or the Horizon League. I'd like to see SLU in the Horizon League but I think the Missouri Valley might be a better fit for them.
Also, SLU has a really good volleyball team. So if they ever moved to the Horizon League, Carin Avery would have her hands full.
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Post by rlh on Feb 9, 2011 14:38:55 GMT -5
Where did anyone get the idea that the Horizon League was looking to expand? Commissioner LeCrone said last year that they had no desire to do so, and i haven't heard any different since.
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Post by oklahoamamick on Feb 9, 2011 17:45:51 GMT -5
Reports that I have read is that the HL is perfectly happy the way things are going and does not want expansion. It was a "What if" question.
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Post by bigdwsu on Feb 9, 2011 19:39:14 GMT -5
SLU would be a huge asset to Horizon League. Why would they join HL? Seems a bad move to them, but........3 reasons make it possible: 1) They get a quicker chance to become an NCAA bid contender 2) Non-revenue sports get shorter & less expensive trips 3) SLU might want a higher profile in midwest cities Chicago, Indy, Detroit, Milwaukee SLU was in the HL from 1981 to 1991. We don't want them back and we wouldn't take them back if they asked. They are actually the complete opposite of what the HL would look for if we were interested in expansion. We want stable programs in the league. SLU is a cheap whore when it comes to conference affiliation. They are constantly jumping from conference to conference looking for a bigger paycheck. In the last 20 years they have gone from the MCC/HL to the Great Midwest to Conf USA to the A-10 and they aren't happy there. |
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Post by valpo84 on Feb 9, 2011 20:29:43 GMT -5
Wow, bigdwsu, those are mighty big words. How do you really feel about SLU from presumably a big Wright State fan. Not to conjure up old history and only saying it for its sarcastic value (and no hard feelings) but wasn't it Wright State that insisted nay demanded and received the right to host the Mid-Con Tourney at its place for a couple years when going D1 with a really strong team in order to gain home court for a possible chance to get to the Dance? Then, after making the NCAA Tourney from the Mid-Con bolted to the "Horizon" in the backroom "coup?" Just saying....  That's all in the past of course and we were actually able to appreciate WSU after the hire of Brownell and the old regime of that time being gone. |
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Post by bigdwsu on Feb 9, 2011 21:07:37 GMT -5
Wow, bigdwsu, those are mighty big words. How do you really feel about SLU from presumably a big Wright State fan. Not to conjure up old history and only saying it for its sarcastic value (and no hard feelings) but wasn't it Wright State that insisted nay demanded and received the right to host the Mid-Con Tourney at its place for a couple years when going D1 with a really strong team in order to gain home court for a possible chance to get to the Dance? Then, after making the NCAA Tourney from the Mid-Con bolted to the "Horizon" in the backroom "coup?" Just saying.... That's all in the past of course and we were actually able to appreciate WSU after the hire of Brownell and the old regime of that time being gone. Valpo also had the chance to join the HL when WSU, CSU, UWGB, UWM, and UIC joined the conference in 1994. Valpo had the chance to join the HL in 2001 when YSU joined. Valpo kept turning down the offer. I personally wish you would have joined in 1994 or 2001. We might not have added YSU if we would have added Valpo first. In regards to WSU, we have been in 2 conferences in our 20+ years of being D1. SLU has been in 4 conferences in that time span and working on their 5th if the MVC will take them. The HL has no interest in expanding at this time. If we were looking to expand, we would be looking at programs that would elevate the HL to being a consistent 2 bid conference. |
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