|
Post by stlvufan on Jan 2, 2011 0:33:53 GMT -5
Just got home not too long ago.
I was very disappointed in the way we started off. It seemed like a typical White Sox game at the Hump-Dome -- it was as if we were seeing demons on every play or something.
TD was with me and was perplexed at how often Ryan passed up open shots from behind the arc. He hit 2 early ones but then passed a lot. I don't know myself, but I can certainly see where Harris was more the alpha dog in this game than Ryan was. After he scored 11 quick points, Homer took him out, and TD thought it looked like Jay didn't understand why (neither did TD). I said that Jay is a freshman and maybe Homer needed to talk to him about something -- he was back in very soon.
One of Howard Little's foul was an absolute crock, but I can't remember which one anymore. But that was my only complaint, officiating wise.
We must have tried a dozen lobs down low and not a single one of them worked. I don't know what the problem was, maybe the passes were just bad.
I picked Butler to win the game, but we've got to make this a closer game than that. And we've got to hit free throws.
I do think -- sorry, 72 -- that Butler had a bit of an off-night, which confirms that my pick prior to the game was the right one.
By the way, these comments come from my perch in section 30, row NNN, but I did not need binoculars to see the court, so....
I didn't get a chance to do this prior to the game, but like last year around this time, I have come up with my prediction for our finish. Our performance today puts this in jeopardy a bit, but as of this morning, I was predicting a 12-6 finish for us, laid out thusly:
Sweep UIC, Loyola, and YSU (the Penguins are going to have earn my respect before I'll pick them to beat us).
Split with UDM and WSU (we win at home and lose there)
Go 3-1 against the Wisconsin schools (don't know which team we'll lose to, nor where).
Split with either Butler or CSU but not both -- beat either the Bulldogs or the Vikings at the ARC, lose to both on the road.
I was hoping we'd keep it to single digits today, then I'd feel better about this prediction.
|
|
|
Post by rlh on Jan 2, 2011 8:04:41 GMT -5
I was talking to friend the other day and also came up with 12-6. The final score is certainly not indicative of how the game went yesterday, but that happens sometimes. Butler is not 17 points better, but they are better. We have to do everything right (i.e., hit free throws and layups) to beat them. I didn't think they had a off day as much as our defense bothered them, but I guess we all see the game somewhat differently. By the way, I said this somewhere else, the key to Butler is Nored. He controls the game and scores when needed....Mack and Howard are going to get the individual awards, but Nored makes them go.
|
|
|
Post by lowposter on Jan 2, 2011 8:45:57 GMT -5
Hard to be optimistic over a 17 point loss but, we are at times capable of playing with Butler. However, we must: 1. Cut down on turnovers 2. Hit the gimme's at the basket 3. Convert free throws 4. Rebound better 5. Find a lockdown defensive player on the perimeter We have skilled players and the defensive is better than last year. Still a ways to go tho. Lowposter
|
|
|
Post by vu72 on Jan 2, 2011 12:55:51 GMT -5
Caught Butler on an off day? Check the stats. They made 19 of 20 FTs. Now that was an off day. The final score had nothing to do with the reality of the game. Inspite of how much of an off day WE WERE HAVING, we were down by 5 with 9 minutes to go. The fouling at the end only padded ther score as they made every shot. There was 10 minutes and 32 seconds of game time that Butler did not have greater than a 10 point lead, the majority of that being much greater. As for the free throws, shooting at a season average clip of 73.9% yields an expected 14.78 points. Are you really going with the +4.22 over expectation, from the line, as your rationale? Valpo hit 10 3s and lost by 17 points. Being a passionate fan is one thing, but being utterly irrational is another thing entirely. The teams are not remotely close. For a team that isn't "remotely" close, we sure didn't let you blow us out. We continually ate into your leads and, if you actually look at the scoring you SHOULD realize that the game was much closer than 17 points, and you know it. To save you time, consider the following: Valpo was down by 5 with 8 minutes to go. Down by 8 with 3:31 to go. Down by 9 with ONE minute to go. During the last 8 minutes you it 3 3's and we missed 4 3's. As for Butler having an "off" night, let's take a look at the stats--I know, those darn facts keep adding to my "irrational" analysis. For the season, Butler has averaged 74.4 ppg. They scored 76. They have allowed 63.9 ppg and let us have 59. They have averaged 43.1% on FGs and made 49% against us. Their season average for FTs has been 75.4 and made 95% against us. Their 3 pt average has been 34.8 and made 35% against us. Their rebounding margin has been 3.1 and beat us by 10. They average 6.1 steals pg and made 9 against us. So, of the 10 categories kept by the Horizon League, Butler EXCEEDED their averages in 7, was essentially tied in 2 and allowed us to make 44.9% of our FG attempts against thier season average of 41.3. Sure looks like an "off" night to me. We on the other hand were under our season average in 9 of 10 categories, only exceeding our average in 3 pt %. Sure looks like WE had the off night. Now our friend Title will be happy to say our problems were caused by Butler's defense and I'll be happy to agree. The game, IN REALITY, was about a 10 point game (down 9 with 1 to play) and we were without Matt Kenney and apparently Erik had been sick all week. Not excuses, just facts that didn't help our cause. On their floor, it certainly wasn't a blowout, and Stevens didn't "call off the dogs" in anyway. Hopkins entered the game with 32 seconds left. You made 6 FTs and a layup in the last minute and we didn't score. Butler played very well on their home court. We didn't play very well, trailed for almost all the game and still had a chance to win. To say the teams aren't "remotely close" is silly on its face. Think again.
|
|
|
Post by 78crusader on Jan 2, 2011 13:15:06 GMT -5
We'll see how things go. This team has not displayed a knack of putting a disappointing loss behind them and then moving on to play well the next game. We'll see if we let Butler beat us twice by losing the next game. Paul
|
|
|
Post by stlvufan on Jan 2, 2011 13:50:07 GMT -5
We'll see how things go. This team has not displayed a knack of putting a disappointing loss behind them and then moving on to play well the next game. We'll see if we let Butler beat us twice by losing the next game. Paul The 4 game winning streak after the Toledo loss says otherwise.
|
|
|
Post by stlvufan on Jan 2, 2011 13:52:58 GMT -5
For 72 and Title:
Note, I said "a bit" of an off day. I think 72 has a point that is just as valid as Title's point. I think to say that the two teams aren't close at all is overselling it a bit. I just think Butler did not play their best game of the season yesterday. Neither did we. As to how much you chalk that up to the other team in each case, that's a slippery question, subject to the bias of the person speaking, so I'm gonna leave that question unanswered.
|
|
|
Post by vu72 on Jan 2, 2011 14:35:54 GMT -5
For 72 and Title: Note, I said "a bit" of an off day. I think 72 has a point that is just as valid as Title's point. I think to say that the two teams aren't close at all is overselling it a bit. I just think Butler did not play their best game of the season yesterday. Neither did we. As to how much you chalk that up to the other team in each case, that's a slippery question, subject to the bias of the person speaking, so I'm gonna leave that question unanswered. As usual, a fair analysis, from someone whose opinion I respect and from someone who actually saw the game, even from a somewhat "lofty" perch!
|
|
|
Post by jj on Jan 2, 2011 15:10:12 GMT -5
A new coaching staff and better recruiting will help close the Valpo-Butler gap. Until then,it's all BUTLER!
|
|
|
Post by staxawax on Jan 2, 2011 16:21:40 GMT -5
MOST of this thread I agree........ you guys are pretty honest in your assessments of Butler and don't have that "Buck Futler" attitude that some of the other teams in our league (and Xavier) have. A few things I disagree with....... Whomever said Shawn Vanzant isn't a player doesn't pay any attention. Shawn is our Willie Veasley this year and is an intricate part of the rotation. He can hit shots, defend fiercely, and rebound with and over the trees inside.
Brad Stevens knows his team, and he was quoted post-game as saying Butler played well for about "30 of the 40 minutes". It's not always about comparing stats. Win by 10, 17 or 30, there are just some aspects of the teams that Valpo has no answer for.......... like Howard and Smith. The Bulldogs went through a period of jacking up shots instead of running their offense. And, they allowed WAY too many open 3's in the second half.
Title is basically correct, there is a pretty large gap between the teams. But, not enough that Valpo can't catch Butler when they have a 20/20 game, as opposed to a 30/10 game, especially if it's at the ARC.
I don't know what the two teams records will be by end of season, but I have no doubt Cleveland State has the ONLY chance to challenge Butler (and it's a slim one...... we'll know more Friday night) for the league regular season title. I like Valpo's makeup, especially when Kenney gets healthy, and the Crusaders should be the best of the rest.
|
|
|
Post by valpomarketingguy on Jan 2, 2011 16:52:08 GMT -5
Here are the post game press conferences. I apologize for the delay in getting these up, but it's a time-consuming process and I had other things to do last night and this morning. I also must let you know that I missed one question asked to Cory Johnson because the camera battery died. I can't recall what the questions was, but Cory's response was "We weren't tough enough today to beat Butler." Enjoy!
|
|
|
Post by stlvufan on Jan 2, 2011 16:59:02 GMT -5
Whomever said Shawn Vanzant isn't a player doesn't pay any attention. Shawn is our Willie Veasley this year and is an intricate part of the rotation. He can hit shots, defend fiercely, and rebound with and over the trees inside. Apparently I missed that one in this thread, or I would have nipped that one in the bud. Needless to say, I agree, stax. They would have allowed even more if Broekhoff had not been so quick to pass I definitely think there were stretches when Butler was off it's game. I also wonder if anyone was alerting Shelvin Mack to the fact that BWood was coming in from behind to pick his pocket on that one play. I would say that if it is true that Butler was on for 3/4ths of the game, it might not be inaccurate to say that they were only off a bit. Nobody brings their A game for 40 out of 40 minutes. Will you be coming up for that game again this year? Absolutely correct, and I am looking forward to Friday's game with much excitement, because in my mind (I may be wrong) that game is a tossup. I think that's a good "stretch goal" for VU this season (that's a term from my workplace at Boeing ). It's realistic, but it's also a challenge.
|
|
|
Post by wh on Jan 2, 2011 17:40:14 GMT -5
Title is basically correct, there is a pretty large gap between the teams. I think you guys may be confusing talent with execution. I've already watched 2 teams beat us that have a big talent advantage over us - Kansas and Purdue. In all due respect, Butler's talent level is far closer to ours than theirs. More than anything, the Bulldogs are classic overachievers (and I mean that as a sincere compliment). Butler players are disciplined, accept their roles, minimize mistakes, and in general work as hard as any team in college basketball. We are a collective work in progress in all of these areas. Hopefully, we'll be closer to "being all we can be" by the time we play you again. Best of luck going forward.
|
|
|
Post by staxawax on Jan 2, 2011 20:56:10 GMT -5
Whomever said Shawn Vanzant isn't a player doesn't pay any attention. Shawn is our Willie Veasley this year and is an intricate part of the rotation. He can hit shots, defend fiercely, and rebound with and over the trees inside. Apparently I missed that one in this thread, or I would have nipped that one in the bud. Needless to say, I agree, stax. They would have allowed even more if Broekhoff had not been so quick to pass I definitely think there were stretches when Butler was off it's game. I also wonder if anyone was alerting Shelvin Mack to the fact that BWood was coming in from behind to pick his pocket on that one play. I would say that if it is true that Butler was on for 3/4ths of the game, it might not be inaccurate to say that they were only off a bit. Nobody brings their A game for 40 out of 40 minutes. Butler played nearly a 40 minute game against Washington State. Both offense and defense played well. But, seldom do they put both together against quality opposition (even in last year's NCAA) Will you be coming up for that game again this year? Sorry, once I read Valpo had packaged the game so we were forced to buy another game with it....Absolutely correct, and I am looking forward to Friday's game with much excitement, because in my mind (I may be wrong) that game is a tossup. I think that's a good "stretch goal" for VU this season (that's a term from my workplace at Boeing ). It's realistic, but it's also a challenge.
|
|
|
Post by staxawax on Jan 2, 2011 21:01:09 GMT -5
Title is basically correct, there is a pretty large gap between the teams. I think you guys may be confusing talent with execution. I've already watched 2 teams beat us that have a big talent advantage over us - Kansas and Purdue. In all due respect, Butler's talent level is far closer to ours than theirs. More than anything, the Bulldogs are classic overachievers (and I mean that as a sincere compliment). Butler players are disciplined, accept their roles, minimize mistakes, and in general work as hard as any team in college basketball. We are a collective work in progress in all of these areas. Hopefully, we'll be closer to "being all we can be" by the time we play you again. Best of luck going forward. Butler does NOT overachieve. They recruit to play in their system, and when they execute the system they can and do beat more talented teams. I have no idea who Kansas has on their roster, but as far as the Boilers are concerned, Johnson and Moore are the only 2 who would start for Butler.
|
|