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Post by theladybook on Feb 21, 2011 0:29:42 GMT -5
A friend who knows the current Notre Dame coach says he has stated categorically that they will "never" play Valpo again. Beating them in our house was bad enough, but doing it a couple years later in their place was unforgivable.
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Post by lowposter on Feb 21, 2011 8:31:16 GMT -5
It was really a great game for VU, but did anyone else grow a little concerned at the beginning of 2H when the Bears just pounded us on the offensive boards (scoring 4 of their first 5 baskets in 2H off of OR)? What happened on the one missed free throw in which no one moved? I had DVRed the game, unfortunately it didnt record. lowposter
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vu84v2
Bench Warmer
Posts: 137
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Post by vu84v2 on Feb 21, 2011 8:56:01 GMT -5
I had the same concern about Missouri State dominating the boards in the beginning of the second half, but should also note that Valpo shored that up quickly and really dominating rebounding overall - other than that stretch.
My view on the free throw when no one moved - the ref gave the shooter the basket and awarded the one. The Valpo players didn't realize the basket had been counted - hence they thought it was the first of two and were "casual".
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Post by stlvufan on Feb 21, 2011 9:02:22 GMT -5
My view on the free throw when no one moved - the ref gave the shooter the basket and awarded the one. The Valpo players didn't realize the basket had been counted - hence they thought it was the first of two and were "casual". That's what it looked like to me, and if the refs didn't signal correctly and none of them happened to notice because they were still concentrating on their man, then part of it is on the refs. Then again, if the refs aren't clear, seek clarification. Don't assume.
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Post by bbtds on Feb 21, 2011 11:25:54 GMT -5
i lol'd especially hard at the comment about the arc as compared to their facility. the building's not everything - oh well. they'll get over it and forget this game soon enough if they finish their season well and show up to play in stl at the mo valley tourney. A benefactor donated $30 million to build MSU's 10,000 plus seat arena. John Q. Hammons is an interesting guy. He is the man who paid for the arena at MO State, the gym at Union High School in Tulsa where the Mid-Con/Summit played their tourney for 4 years and the $32 million facility for the Springfield, MO Cardinals (the Cardinals AA team) Hammons Field. He started as a teacher after graduating from Southwest Missouri Teachers College in 1939 and making a small salary but he changed to the construction industry and with smart investing eventually amassed a huge fortune. Today he owns John Q. Hammons Hotels & Resorts, a hotel company that owns some of the finest luxury hotels in the country. He is also part owner of WHI construction company.
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Post by milanmiracle on Feb 21, 2011 12:10:54 GMT -5
Not much different from today's ND, which would rather fatten up on cupcakes at home than toughen up on a few good RPI games on the road before the BigLeast season begins. The only "home" Valpo-ND game in recent memory was at the United Center and that ended up a one possession game. And the reason Notre Dame won't play Valpo is...there's no reason to do so. IF Notre Dame wins, so what? It doesn't help their RPI and it's just another win. IF they lose, it's one less W on the tournament resume. Playing in the Big East will help their RPI enough that ND has absolutely no reason to schedule or play Valpo.
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Post by CO_VU_Fan on Feb 21, 2011 14:01:43 GMT -5
BTW, the Dickie V joke about Digger not being able to find VU or Purdue is an old "dig" about the fact that after 1988's win against ND at the ARC, Digger would never play VU at the ARC again. Also, I don't ever remember ND heading to WLafayette either. Not much different from today's ND, which would rather fatten up on cupcakes at home than toughen up on a few good RPI games on the road before the BigLeast season begins. The only "home" Valpo-ND game in recent memory was at the United Center and that ended up a one possession game. And for us old AMCU-8ers, beating SWMS like we did yesterday felt really good. Now crushing UWGB at their place Monday night would feel even better. I heard Vitale's dig at ND and coach Phelps, but recalled it a little differently. ND came to the ARC twice - the dedication game in 1984, and the aforementioned 1988 game. ND did travel to the ARC, but you are correct that Digger wouldn't come back to the ARC after that '88 upset. A few years later, ND dropped VU from the schedule completely after (I believe) Schmidt and Redmon beat them at ND. The Purdue dig had to do with ND and Purdue basketball prior to Digger arriving at ND. I believe that ND was scheduled to be the dedication game for the new Mackey Arena in the late '60s, but was canceled at the last moment (schedule wise) for Purdue to bring in UCLA and John Wooden. I don't think ND and Purdue have played a scheduled regular season game since. Digger was quoted a few times ('70s and '80s I believe) that there are no roads between ND and Purdue. If you were to look at a map, there are no good direct routes for a bus trip. In the '70s most teams would take buses for trips that short. At least that was the ND administration and Digger's excuse. Maybe with Scott Martin at ND, we have a chance next year to get ND at the ARC.
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Post by valpomarketingguy on Feb 21, 2011 14:36:39 GMT -5
Thanks to all of you that were at the ARC Saturday for helping make it an electric atmosphere! Dickie V. was surely impressed by the passion of our fan base and the home court advantage created as a result! Here's a bit of video for you!
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Post by stlvufan on Feb 21, 2011 15:45:24 GMT -5
Not much different from today's ND, which would rather fatten up on cupcakes at home than toughen up on a few good RPI games on the road before the BigLeast season begins. The only "home" Valpo-ND game in recent memory was at the United Center and that ended up a one possession game. And the reason Notre Dame won't play Valpo is...there's no reason to do so. IF Notre Dame wins, so what? It doesn't help their RPI and it's just another win. IF they lose, it's one less W on the tournament resume. Playing in the Big East will help their RPI enough that ND has absolutely no reason to schedule or play Valpo. And this is precisely what is wrong with Division I College Basketball. My sound-bite version of what you just typed: "ND is scared to play Valpo." You can spin it however you want to, but the nature of the NCAA sanctions such fear as legitimate and even garners much sympathy for it. If you're better, you shouldn't fear having to prove it. The NCAA needs to figure out a way to encourage that kind of behavior.
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Post by milanmiracle on Feb 22, 2011 11:45:57 GMT -5
And the reason Notre Dame won't play Valpo is...there's no reason to do so. IF Notre Dame wins, so what? It doesn't help their RPI and it's just another win. IF they lose, it's one less W on the tournament resume. Playing in the Big East will help their RPI enough that ND has absolutely no reason to schedule or play Valpo. And this is precisely what is wrong with Division I College Basketball. My sound-bite version of what you just typed: "ND is scared to play Valpo." You can spin it however you want to, but the nature of the NCAA sanctions such fear as legitimate and even garners much sympathy for it. If you're better, you shouldn't fear having to prove it. The NCAA needs to figure out a way to encourage that kind of behavior. In the end, it all comes down to making the NCAA tournament. It's not about being "better", it's about keeping your job and going to the NCAA's. What would get Notre Dame to the dance? Playing and possibly losing to teams like Valpo, Butler, Gonzaga, and Memphis? OR beating up cupcakes that way when you go .500 in the Big East you have a decent record and a solid effort in a very strong conference? The one thing that people sometimes forget is that Notre Dame is now playing their toughest part of the schedule. Here's the perfect example. The realtime RPI has the Horizon League with 3 teams in the top 100, while the Big East has 12. In the end, they play who they need to play in order to go to the NCAA tournament and that's the bottom line.
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Post by stlvufan on Feb 22, 2011 13:34:43 GMT -5
And this is precisely what is wrong with Division I College Basketball. My sound-bite version of what you just typed: "ND is scared to play Valpo." You can spin it however you want to, but the nature of the NCAA sanctions such fear as legitimate and even garners much sympathy for it. If you're better, you shouldn't fear having to prove it. The NCAA needs to figure out a way to encourage that kind of behavior. In the end, it all comes down to making the NCAA tournament. It's not about being "better", it's about keeping your job and going to the NCAA's. What would get Notre Dame to the dance? Playing and possibly losing to teams like Valpo, Butler, Gonzaga, and Memphis? OR beating up cupcakes that way when you go .500 in the Big East you have a decent record and a solid effort in a very strong conference? The one thing that people sometimes forget is that Notre Dame is now playing their toughest part of the schedule. Here's the perfect example. The realtime RPI has the Horizon League with 3 teams in the top 100, while the Big East has 12. In the end, they play who they need to play in order to go to the NCAA tournament and that's the bottom line. You're not really hurting my argument any. I know all this. It just adds to what's screwed up about College Basketball in the NCAA Division I -- when there is legitimate sanction and protection for being afraid to play someone, it's time to blow the whole thing up and start over. Either that, or simply accept that the system is screwed up and stop trying to justify it.
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Post by milanmiracle on Feb 22, 2011 15:23:02 GMT -5
In the end, it all comes down to making the NCAA tournament. It's not about being "better", it's about keeping your job and going to the NCAA's. What would get Notre Dame to the dance? Playing and possibly losing to teams like Valpo, Butler, Gonzaga, and Memphis? OR beating up cupcakes that way when you go .500 in the Big East you have a decent record and a solid effort in a very strong conference? The one thing that people sometimes forget is that Notre Dame is now playing their toughest part of the schedule. Here's the perfect example. The realtime RPI has the Horizon League with 3 teams in the top 100, while the Big East has 12. In the end, they play who they need to play in order to go to the NCAA tournament and that's the bottom line. You're not really hurting my argument any. I know all this. It just adds to what's screwed up about College Basketball in the NCAA Division I -- when there is legitimate sanction and protection for being afraid to play someone, it's time to blow the whole thing up and start over. Either that, or simply accept that the system is screwed up and stop trying to justify it. I guess I don't think the system is screwed up, that's all. I think teams that play in tougher conferences need to schedule cupcakes in order to make the dance in much the same way Valpo needs to schedule better teams to make up for their conference schedule. Let's face it, it was going to take a miracle for Valpo to make it as an at large team out of the Mid Con because of the lack of quality opponents in conference. That's fair. And, if I understand this correctly, you want teams like Notre Dame to play Valpo, Butler, Gonzaga and Memphis and THEN play Georgetown, Syracuse and UConn while Valpo is playing Youngstown State and UIC? That doesn't seem right either.
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Post by stlvufan on Feb 22, 2011 16:34:34 GMT -5
You're not really hurting my argument any. I know all this. It just adds to what's screwed up about College Basketball in the NCAA Division I -- when there is legitimate sanction and protection for being afraid to play someone, it's time to blow the whole thing up and start over. Either that, or simply accept that the system is screwed up and stop trying to justify it. I guess I don't think the system is screwed up, that's all. I think teams that play in tougher conferences need to schedule cupcakes in order to make the dance in much the same way Valpo needs to schedule better teams to make up for their conference schedule. Let's face it, it was going to take a miracle for Valpo to make it as an at large team out of the Mid Con because of the lack of quality opponents in conference. That's fair. And, if I understand this correctly, you want teams like Notre Dame to play Valpo, Butler, Gonzaga and Memphis and THEN play Georgetown, Syracuse and UConn while Valpo is playing Youngstown State and UIC? That doesn't seem right either. If teams need to schedule cupcakes in order to get into the NCAA Tournament, that already proves to me that the system is all screwed up. I want teams to be ready to prove themselves against all comers, any time, any place, and I want them to be judged fairly. Regrettably, I do not know how to solve the problem, so I offer no solutions, but just because I can't think of a good way to solve the problem doesn't mean I should be expected to ignore the blemishes and suddenly think the system is working properly. I find my own ways to enjoy NCAA basketball, and rooting for and relishing first and 2nd round upsets, engaging in schadenfreude (sp?) or whatever that German word is, everytime Mr. Virginia Tech whines about being left out of the Big Dance while some puny school gets their conference's auto-bid are just two of the ways I choose to enjoy NCAA basketball. Another way is that the HL is my entire world and the Big Ten, ACC, etc., does not really exist in my world. They're irrelevant to me. Cupcake scheduling is wrong. The fact that it is necessary means the system is wrong. Q.E.D. If I could think of a workable solution to the problem, I'd suggest it. I'm sorry I can't.
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Post by jbowker on Feb 22, 2011 21:49:58 GMT -5
How about letting the BCS-6 play two "Exhibition" Mid Major teams that don't count. Most of those big coaches have former assistant coaches they like to help out... sounds like a win win... which it probably would be... but without the consequences they fear!
That's why we play Greg Tonagel's team, etc... let's let the big boys step down a notch.
oh, when we beat 'em... we get to gloat all over the place!!
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Post by stlvufan on Feb 22, 2011 23:14:51 GMT -5
How about letting the BCS-6 play two "Exhibition" Mid Major teams that don't count. Most of those big coaches have former assistant coaches they like to help out... sounds like a win win... which it probably would be... but without the consequences they fear! That's why we play Greg Tonagel's team, etc... let's let the big boys step down a notch. oh, when we beat 'em... we get to gloat all over the place!! Eh. I'm not terribly interested in alleviating fear. Fear is something you should face, not run from. Good try, though
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