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Post by vufan75 on Feb 22, 2011 20:42:41 GMT -5
As well as others, I'm disappointed in the results of the Wisconsin road trip. The stat that jumped out at me from the box score of last nights Green Bay game was our 18 turnovers. It is almost impossible to win turning the ball over that many times, and missing out on that many potential scoring opportunities. It would be interesting to go back and see how many turnovers we average per game in wins vs, losses, and how we stack up vs. other conference teams. I'm thinking without looking that we don't rank well in the turnover category. I'm sure the coaches stress reducing turnovers and valuing the basketball, just as they do shooting free throws. For some reason we struggle in this area. Hope springs eternal, so I'm hoping in our remaining regular season and then tournament games that we show improvement in this area. Well, I thought I'd look up that stat and it is pretty solid. while at it, I retrieved all of them: Here you go, Valpo's rank among the Horizon League teams, YTD: Scoring: 3rd Defense: 5th FG %: 1st FT %: 8th (Ugh!) 3 pt %: 8th (Ugh!) FG % defense: 2nd Rebound margin: 6th Assists per game: 1st Steals per game: 1st Assts /TO margin: 2nd TO Margin: 1st Average Home attendance: 3rd Average overall attendance: 3rd Going back to the turnover problem I mentioned, for 2010-11 HL "conference games only" including all games through 2/21/11, the info shows we rank 7th in turnover margin in our conference games. This conference stat is on page 6 when opening link below. Perhaps we are talking different parameters. I was thinking in conference games how do we stack up vs. other HL conference teams. Your turnover stat takes into account all games HL conference teams have played, be they non-conference or conference games? Or, it could be that I am just not getting it tonight? Time for a break s3.amazonaws.com/hln/sports/statfiles/2/stats.pdf?1298348131
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Post by vu72 on Feb 22, 2011 20:57:39 GMT -5
I stand corrected. Maybe i can't read my own writing. Thought that "7" looked like a "1"! Old eyes I guess.
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Post by milldew1 on Feb 23, 2011 9:32:06 GMT -5
Excuses, excuses. As long as everyone is OK with finishing 3 or 4 in the league then the team will never be better than 3 or 4 in the league. You all should be really upset that this team had the league locked up and BLEW it. Three games against the bottom of the league. They needed to win out and didn't. We have to stop being happy with a program that snatched defeat from the jaws of victory.
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Post by stlvufan on Feb 23, 2011 10:14:31 GMT -5
Excuses, excuses. As long as everyone is OK with finishing 3 or 4 in the league then the team will never be better than 3 or 4 in the league. You all should be really upset that this team had the league locked up and BLEW it. Three games against the bottom of the league. They needed to win out and didn't. We have to stop being happy with a program that snatched defeat from the jaws of victory. Exactly NOBODY around here is happy with a program that snatched defeat from the jaws of victory. Just don't expect me to trash them for it and pronounce the season over.
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Post by milldew1 on Feb 23, 2011 11:14:23 GMT -5
If they'd have beaten Green Bay, the conference championship would been almost assured. But it seems this team beats teams it maybe shouldn't, then doesn't reap the rewards because they then lose to teams they should beat. They're now in third place which negates the double bye and forces them to play in the first round. I'm not happy about it, but the season is over. Their only chance at an at-large was winning the regular season. Their only chance now to make the tourney is winning the conference tourney. The season is done.
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Post by stlvufan on Feb 23, 2011 11:22:27 GMT -5
Their only chance at an at-large was winning the regular season. There was *never* a chance at an at-large, not after the loss to Toledo. If they dance, I expect you to come on here and eat your own words.
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Post by rlh on Feb 23, 2011 11:39:24 GMT -5
If they'd have beaten Green Bay, the conference championship would been almost assured. But it seems this team beats teams it maybe shouldn't, then doesn't reap the rewards because they then lose to teams they should beat. They're now in third place which negates the double bye and forces them to play in the first round. I'm not happy about it, but the season is over. Their only chance at an at-large was winning the regular season. Their only chance now to make the tourney is winning the conference tourney. The season is done. I cannot begin to express how utterly stupid I find those remarks to be.......If you haven't enjoyed the ride, find another team PLEASE !!!!!
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Post by valposition on Feb 23, 2011 12:03:11 GMT -5
If they'd have beaten Green Bay, the conference championship would been almost assured. But it seems this team beats teams it maybe shouldn't, then doesn't reap the rewards because they then lose to teams they should beat. They're now in third place which negates the double bye and forces them to play in the first round. I'm not happy about it, but the season is over. Their only chance at an at-large was winning the regular season. Their only chance now to make the tourney is winning the conference tourney. The season is done. I cannot begin to express how utterly stupid I find those remarks to be.......If you haven't enjoyed the ride, find another team PLEASE !!!!! I agree rlh. Green Bay was obviously disappointing to everyone because it was a set back. We still have to see how everything settles as far as how we place. This is not determined yet. If we do come in 3rd or lower we still have a great team with a deep bench. It may not be as easy as a double bye but who said it was going to be easy! Bottom line, whoever wins this conference is going to have to do some pretty amazing things. From what I have seen this season, we have the players to do it. Let's all be FANS here and hope the Wisconson trip was just what they needed for motivation to go on a big run! As far as negative comments about our senior leadership - thier back are now up against the wall. This is where I expect them to shine. It is far more unlikely a player in thier (seniors) position would roll-over at this point, especially after all three had some down moments. They have all the motivatoin in the world to pound thier oppnents moving forward. Let's support these guys rather than punish them for a mistep THAT IN NO WAY IS THE END OF THE SEASON!
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Post by jerome1 on Feb 23, 2011 12:31:54 GMT -5
I cannot begin to express how utterly stupid I find those remarks to be.......If you haven't enjoyed the ride, find another team PLEASE !!!!! Let's support these guys rather than punish them for a mistep THAT IN NO WAY IS THE END OF THE SEASON! I agree. The season is certainly not over. Valpo is still only 1 game behind 1st place CSU who must still play Milwaukee and Green Bay. That isn't exactly an easy schedule. Butler has the easiest schedule and they also have senior night. The Butler/Loyola game is sold out at Hinkle. I just don't see Butler losing that.
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Post by milldew1 on Feb 23, 2011 14:18:40 GMT -5
I didn't realize being disappointed in the team and expressing that makes one not a fan. I've really enjoyed the ride as I have for the past 10 years, despite some bad seasons. I guess we're not allowed to express opinions and concerns about the team without being labeled as stupid and not a fan. I love this team. Live and die with it. Have since I've been here (for the past 8 years). Been to more games this season than most of you, I'm sure. So when I say I feel the season's over it doesn't mean I'm not a fan and it doesn't mean I don't support the team. It means I'm not blind. I'll be at every game Valpo plays in the Horizon tourney and if they get an NIT bid, I'll be at that game, too. And I'll be cheering louder than anyone in the stands, as I do EVERY GAME. Criticism is healthy and it doesn't mean someone is not a fan.
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Post by stlvufan on Feb 23, 2011 14:51:59 GMT -5
I didn't realize being disappointed in the team and expressing that makes one not a fan. I've really enjoyed the ride as I have for the past 10 years, despite some bad seasons. I guess we're not allowed to express opinions and concerns about the team without being labeled as stupid and not a fan. I love this team. Live and die with it. Have since I've been here (for the past 8 years). Been to more games this season than most of you, I'm sure. So when I say I feel the season's over it doesn't mean I'm not a fan and it doesn't mean I don't support the team. It means I'm not blind. I'll be at every game Valpo plays in the Horizon tourney and if they get an NIT bid, I'll be at that game, too. And I'll be cheering louder than anyone in the stands, as I do EVERY GAME. Criticism is healthy and it doesn't mean someone is not a fan. I agree with you up to a point. But I'm still waiting for one example of "excuses" that have been rendered here. No one I know of has. I think you were the one that upped the ante and made this about more than just everyone expressing their opinion. You critiqued the opinions of others, thereby transforming the conversation into a debate about what is considered a reasonable take on the season and what is considered unreasonable. Nothing wrong with that, necessarily, but you have to be able to take critique of your own "position" on this season as well. In a year when Butler lost to YSU of all teams, CSU crapped the bed at Calihan Hall, and Milwaukee smoked Butler by 20+, anything can happen. As long as you upped the anti, I don't see any reason why I can't criticize you for prematurely calling an end to the season. At the same time, you are entitled to judge the season however see fit. But when you propose that assessment in a disparaging way toward the assessments of others, you should expect vigorous debate. I'm not really interested in a message board where no one is ever allowed to critique the opinions of others. You might start by citing one example of someone here offering up an excuse that justifies the team's play in Wisconsin. Until then, I will continue to maintain that the season is absolutely *not* over. I'm glad you're still a fan and haven't jumped off the train. I guess it was a little hard for me to tell from your initial offering.
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Post by milanmiracle on Feb 23, 2011 15:31:10 GMT -5
If they'd have beaten Green Bay, the conference championship would been almost assured. But it seems this team beats teams it maybe shouldn't, then doesn't reap the rewards because they then lose to teams they should beat. They're now in third place which negates the double bye and forces them to play in the first round. I'm not happy about it, but the season is over. Their only chance at an at-large was winning the regular season. Their only chance now to make the tourney is winning the conference tourney. The season is done. I cannot begin to express how utterly stupid I find those remarks to be.......If you haven't enjoyed the ride, find another team PLEASE !!!!! I guess you're taking the life's a journey not a destination approach? That's fair, as it's more likely an enjoyable way to view things. However, I can see where people are coming from with the season is over comments. To me the whole point of the season is to qualify for the NCAA tournament, nothing more. If the NCAA's aren't in your reach, or as another poster put it, pulling off a miracle to get there, then the season is really pretty much over.
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Post by milldew1 on Feb 23, 2011 15:54:36 GMT -5
The following quote sums it up for me, I guess, as far as what I've been trying to say: "Yes, the Crusaders are just six points away from having this thing locked up, but they are also three overtime wins away from being 8-8. You can only focus on the next game and the truth is, Valpo has a chance to take out some frustration over the next two games and then handle whatever comes. Dick's "6 points" comment really bothered me. That's a terrible way to look at this. If If's and buts were candy and nuts, we'd all have a merry christmas. "6 points" out of the conference lead means nothing, but it always seems comments like this are always used to make things all right. That';s all I'm saying.
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Post by stlvufan on Feb 23, 2011 16:28:48 GMT -5
The following quote sums it up for me, I guess, as far as what I've been trying to say: "Yes, the Crusaders are just six points away from having this thing locked up, but they are also three overtime wins away from being 8-8. You can only focus on the next game and the truth is, Valpo has a chance to take out some frustration over the next two games and then handle whatever comes. I remember that quote and I too thought it was on target. I won't try to speak for rlh, but I see what you are saying. I think I've expressed my own sense of what has been happening, so I won't rehash it.
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Post by rlh on Feb 23, 2011 17:59:57 GMT -5
I was just trying to put the disappointment we all feel in perspective. When others were saying they "blew" the league, I take issue with that....PLUS as I've said many times in the past, it's still only college basketball. it's to be enjoyed and I certainly do that. If you don't agree with my assessment, that's fine, but it only shows how close we really are to the top of this conference and I believe the future is very bright. However, this season is not over yet and we still have a chance to accomplish even more.
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