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Post by stlvufan on Mar 6, 2011 1:11:40 GMT -5
What a disappointment!! The refs were terrible, but to be honest what good would more free throws do for us. We don't make free throws. Alright that may be an exaggeration, but with a grain of truth in it. As far as NIT, there is ZERO chance of us getting a bid. Cleveland St is going NIT no doubt. I believe the loser of the champoinship goes NIT regardless. There is no way that the 4th place team in the Horizon league gets a call up when they can take a 7th or 8th place team in a power conference. You're only right if Butler wins on Tuesday. If Milwaukee wins, Butler will get an at-large bid. CSU will get an NIT invite, but Valpo also probably will. If Butler wins, they probably take Milwaukee and CSU and probably not Valpo.
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Post by vuweathernerd on Mar 6, 2011 1:14:58 GMT -5
so we become milwaukee fans on tuesday. otherwise we'll most likely end up in the cbi or cit.
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Post by valpo10 on Mar 6, 2011 1:16:52 GMT -5
I understand you are frustrated, but the attacks on our city and university are unnecessary. I agree, although the "Sober Campus" chant was idiotic. It's not even true, for one thing. For another, it's not worth making fun of even if it is. Another point to add is you can buy beer at the game. Students were double fistin' like no other.
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Post by rlh on Mar 6, 2011 1:26:32 GMT -5
Sorry guys....as much as a Valpo fan as I am, i would be shocked if we get an NIT bid. I hope I'm wrong, but don't think so....
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Post by a3uge on Mar 6, 2011 1:56:43 GMT -5
I'm not attacking the city. I actually live in Milwaukee and think it's a cool city. I'm not attacking the pep band either. They were decent, but should have been twice the size. I'm attacking the support of the team. I was walking out of the game and a fan goes "Yeah I think Butler made the final four last year". They were centimeters away from champions in the FINALS. Ugh. I would be really disappointed if they represented the Horizon League over Butler. As much as I hate losing to Butler, they have a great dedicated fan-base. They bring recognition to the Horizon in a way UWM doesn't. I remember when UWM made the sweet-16 I wasn't even aware they had a D-1 program. I guess that's a lesson in second-tier commuter state schools. We see it with Cleveland St, Green Bay, Wright St, UIC, and YSU.
I don't think Valpo gets an NIT invite either way, so I'll be cheering for Butler to represent the league.
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Post by uwmpantherholic on Mar 6, 2011 2:00:32 GMT -5
Milwaukee: Your school is pathetic. Seriously, a city of 600,000 people and school of 30,000 on a Saturday Night and you bring that to the game? 7,431 "fans" to be exact. You were loud two times all game. The time when a fan got ejected because he threw a HORIZON LEAGUE SHIRT back on the court (twice) and the foul against Witt (missed both free throws). You started chanting "sober campus" to us at one point. Do you guys even have dorms? How many people actually live on campus? I'm pretty sure the Valpo student section showed more excitement during school songs than UWM. And I think our pep band was actually larger than the UWM one, and you guys PAY your players. This is the semi-finals and you have the 1-seed. You guys don't deserve to move on because you have embarrassing support for your team. LOL I was hoping for someone to post something stupid like this and thankfully you did. I love sour grapes post that conclude with unnecessary bashing of the opposing team. Hopefully once you cry to your stuffed animals you'll feel better. Asking if a school of 30,000 has dorms or people living on campus? To quote the movie Tommy Boy, "Did you eat paintchips as a kid?" As far as a fanbase, when you've had no real success until Bruce Pearl's tenure, yeah you're not going to have much of a fanbase considering those who do attend regularly have seen a larger portion of season ticket holders become disgruntled with the product that's been on the floor. I know this may come as a surprise to you but Milwaukee's a little bigger of a city than Valparaiso, IN and therefore have to compete against a lot more for attention. To say we're second fiddle to Marquette isn't even true because we play third fiddle to Marquette and UW considering the amount of UW alums in the greater MKE area as well as the Badgers being arguably the most popular college bball program in the state (I'm sure I just pissed off some MU fans with that comment but I don't care). So when you have that to compete against as well as a marginal level of success many of these fans will start paying attention once we're a consistent contender if/when that ever happens. I can definitely say there's a lot of bandwagon fans but when you have no real tradition outside of a couple years in the mid 2000s and are up against quality programs from the Big Ten and Big East its not to hard to figure out why our attendance is low. The morons who threw the shirts should've gotten ejected so its not like any of us shed a tear for them and during the Butler/CSU game Butler's cheerleaders threw out BU t-shirts to the crowd so my guess is they assumed the shirts were Valpo shirts. Still no excuse and again, none of us shed a tear for those who were ejected. Favorite calls of the night: 1. The call that drew Homer a technical. Little got absolutely shoved, two hands extended and they somehow got him for a hold. I suppose Drew's technical could be absurd if it weren't stated in the NCAA rulebook that a coach is subject to a technical foul if they leave the coaching box. Had his heels been touching the line and he was called, yeah that'd be ticky-tack to say the least but he was at the halfcourt line. No excuse. Jeter's done that before and we held him accountable for it since its a blatant violation. As for the officiating as a whole, yeah there were bad calls both ways...it happens in EVERY other game that's played and this was no different. If you haven't figured out Horizon League officials by now, God help you. Were I was sitting, we happend to be sitting right behind Butler's assistant coaches who were scouting the game and about midway through the second half one of them chuckled and turned to my friend and I and said "Every time Hill goes to the paint they just foul him. EVERY TIME!" So yeah this was not just "bad officiating" when coaches from other teams are saying it too. And yes the pick at the end from Rogers was definitely clean, Boyle's teammate failed to call out the screen and he got his bell rung. Sucked to be him but completely legal.
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Post by valpo10 on Mar 6, 2011 2:06:55 GMT -5
The shirts were just Horizon League Basketball shirts. Each team was allocated an x-amount.
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Post by blackpantheruwm on Mar 6, 2011 2:13:55 GMT -5
I only have one thing to say:
Michael Rogers laid the best pick in the history of basketball. And Tone Boyle proved one thing: he can take a hit like a champ. Talked to him after the game, he's perfectly fine. Just got his bell rung.
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Post by blackpantheruwm on Mar 6, 2011 2:27:30 GMT -5
Okay, I get the argument about the disparity in free throws, but if you had driven the lane instead of settling for jump shots 85% of the time, you may have drawn more fouls.
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Post by valpo10 on Mar 6, 2011 2:33:11 GMT -5
Okay, I get the argument about the disparity in free throws, but if you had driven the lane instead of settling for jump shots 85% of the time, you may have drawn more fouls. Pretty sure that was the game plan (Look at Buggs in the first 3 minutes). But when refs think they have to dictate the game, then crap happens. All in all you guys won, congrats. Good luck against Butler.
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Post by superking on Mar 6, 2011 2:55:43 GMT -5
I'll say this about the free throw disparity:
Milwaukee is first in the Horizon League in fouls committed, with only 17.2 per game (309 total). We are also first in the league in fouls drawn, with 22.1 per game. According to Statsheet's data from yesterday (which still has us at 21.4), we are 21st in the nation in fouls against.
I thought the officials were very good. On the whole this is probably the best crew in the league. The Drew technical was legitimate (he was way outside the box), and I don't think if you review tape you can find that many legitimate complaints, though there are always a few. The reason you guys committed so many fouls against Hill was because you don't have bodies big enough to defend him. And you're not the first team to face this problem.
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Post by a3uge on Mar 6, 2011 3:15:02 GMT -5
Milwaukee: Your school is pathetic. Seriously, a city of 600,000 people and school of 30,000 on a Saturday Night and you bring that to the game? 7,431 "fans" to be exact. You were loud two times all game. The time when a fan got ejected because he threw a HORIZON LEAGUE SHIRT back on the court (twice) and the foul against Witt (missed both free throws). You started chanting "sober campus" to us at one point. Do you guys even have dorms? How many people actually live on campus? I'm pretty sure the Valpo student section showed more excitement during school songs than UWM. And I think our pep band was actually larger than the UWM one, and you guys PAY your players. This is the semi-finals and you have the 1-seed. You guys don't deserve to move on because you have embarrassing support for your team. LOL I was hoping for someone to post something stupid like this and thankfully you did. I love sour grapes post that conclude with unnecessary bashing of the opposing team. Hopefully once you cry to your stuffed animals you'll feel better. Asking if a school of 30,000 has dorms or people living on campus? To quote the movie Tommy Boy, "Did you eat paintchips as a kid?" As far as a fanbase, when you've had no real success until Bruce Pearl's tenure, yeah you're not going to have much of a fanbase considering those who do attend regularly have seen a larger portion of season ticket holders become disgruntled with the product that's been on the floor. I know this may come as a surprise to you but Milwaukee's a little bigger of a city than Valparaiso, IN and therefore have to compete against a lot more for attention. To say we're second fiddle to Marquette isn't even true because we play third fiddle to Marquette and UW considering the amount of UW alums in the greater MKE area as well as the Badgers being arguably the most popular college bball program in the state (I'm sure I just pissed off some MU fans with that comment but I don't care). So when you have that to compete against as well as a marginal level of success many of these fans will start paying attention once we're a consistent contender if/when that ever happens. I can definitely say there's a lot of bandwagon fans but when you have no real tradition outside of a couple years in the mid 2000s and are up against quality programs from the Big Ten and Big East its not to hard to figure out why our attendance is low. The morons who threw the shirts should've gotten ejected so its not like any of us shed a tear for them and during the Butler/CSU game Butler's cheerleaders threw out BU t-shirts to the crowd so my guess is they assumed the shirts were Valpo shirts. Still no excuse and again, none of us shed a tear for those who were ejected. Favorite calls of the night: 1. The call that drew Homer a technical. Little got absolutely shoved, two hands extended and they somehow got him for a hold. I suppose Drew's technical could be absurd if it weren't stated in the NCAA rulebook that a coach is subject to a technical foul if they leave the coaching box. Had his heels been touching the line and he was called, yeah that'd be ticky-tack to say the least but he was at the halfcourt line. No excuse. Jeter's done that before and we held him accountable for it since its a blatant violation. As for the officiating as a whole, yeah there were bad calls both ways...it happens in EVERY other game that's played and this was no different. If you haven't figured out Horizon League officials by now, God help you. Were I was sitting, we happend to be sitting right behind Butler's assistant coaches who were scouting the game and about midway through the second half one of them chuckled and turned to my friend and I and said "Every time Hill goes to the paint they just foul him. EVERY TIME!" So yeah this was not just "bad officiating" when coaches from other teams are saying it too. And yes the pick at the end from Rogers was definitely clean, Boyle's teammate failed to call out the screen and he got his bell rung. Sucked to be him but completely legal. The technical foul itself wasn't bad; I don't think anyone was arguing that. It was the call on Little after he got completely shoved with two hands. This is why Homer was livid. And this was after Johnson went up and got destroyed with a no call. I'm not sure which game you watched, but Valpo drove hard most the game, and would NEVER get a call. Van Vijk beasted down low and they called one shooting foul the whole game. He was getting hacked when he went up. On the other end, a ticky tack drive into a Valpo guy would warrant a shooting foul. At some point in the second half we abandoned that for awhile, since UWM players were given a green light for contact down low. The dorms comment was obviously an exaggeration. I hope you realize a small portion of the school actually lives on campus, let alone, are from a state other than Wisconsin. As far as the attendance goes, if the school gave an ounce about college basketball, they would be able to fill up a semi-final game on a Saturday night given the sheer size of the school. Other than arguing that UWM alumni/students dislike their team because they are Marquette or Wisconsin fans, you seem to agree that UWM has a weakly supported basketball team. Edit: And this last idiot who says the officiating was "very good" must not have watched the same game all of us did.
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Post by valpo84 on Mar 6, 2011 4:40:03 GMT -5
Homer was looking for that T. He tried to get it the previous non-call on Johnson who was fouled going to the basket. He should have gone for the T in the 1st half to help the disparity earlier. Yes, UWM pushed the post. I applaud them for that. They tried and succeeded in taking advantage of the match up. But Hill gets away with a lot of separation moves down low. The way Howard was flopping around during the CSU game, I'm guessing we'll see Howard look for some offensive fouls on Hill early.
I will also say this for Valpo as a teaching note. Needs to be a point of emphasis over the summer. Quit fouling down low when guys have beat you. Why give up the "and 1" or the "interntional"? Give up the 2 and get back to business. We don't have shot blockers. We give away too many silly fouls. Good example, Wood was posted up and fouled by reaching. A few possessions later, they posted Wood up again and Wood went with his hands straight up. Shot was partially blocked and we got the ball back.
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Post by crusaderboy on Mar 6, 2011 9:38:40 GMT -5
The foul trouble on Johnson and Van Wijk hindered their ability to at least try and defend Hill and that was the difference in the game during that stretch early in the second half. It wasn't the free throw disparity; it was the inability to be aggressive and physical down low.
Howard's foul trouble (self-induced by trying to draw a ridiculous charge 35 feet from the hoop when he already had 2 fouls) led to more minutes for Kenney. Unfortunately he provided zero production. The Crusaders really needed something from Matt and Ryan tonight. They got, in my opinion, their two worst performances of the year. Players are judged by how they perform on the biggest stage. Unfortunately Broekhoff and Kenney were terrible. Only sophomores so hopefully they can learn and get better. On the other hand, bravo to BWood and Buggs. Huge stones.
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Post by milanmiracle on Mar 6, 2011 10:24:39 GMT -5
I only have one thing to say: Michael Rogers laid the best pick in the history of basketball. And Tone Boyle proved one thing: he can take a hit like a champ. Talked to him after the game, he's perfectly fine. Just got his bell rung. I don't know about all that. It was a good pick, a clean pick, a make you question pressuring the ball pick, a what just happened pick,however... Harold Swanagan (from Notre Dame) set a pick (legal too) that knocked the guy out before he even hit the floor. Rogers is listed at 6'6 215. Swanagan was 6'7 252 and played center for the Irish. While Rogers pick was definitely one of my favorites of all time, when you're out cold before you hit the floor that pick trumps it, in my opinion. Oh, and just a future reference type of thing...call out picks so as not to get your teammates killed.
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