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Post by vuweathernerd on Jan 30, 2011 1:49:47 GMT -5
Act like you've been there before. we haven't been there before. that's the problem. maybe you remember the last time valpo beat butler, but none of us in the student section do. there hasn't been much opportunity for the students to rush the court over the last several years. the closest thing i can remember is the miami (oh) game from the bracketbuster 3 years ago. but i don't remember if we stormed the court then or not.
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Post by stlvufan on Jan 30, 2011 4:47:37 GMT -5
Court rush? Really? This is the fourth CONFERENCE loss for Butler. Honestly, I have mixed emotions about it. I do think it is silly, but at least there's some plausibility to it, given that we have been to Butler what Oakland was to us in the Mid-Con: the team that just can't beat them no matter how hard we try and how close we come. My thing about court rushes has been the safety factor -- people have been seriously injured. For that matter, it can disrupt the handshake line, which is a beautiful part of the game.
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Post by stlvufan on Jan 30, 2011 4:56:15 GMT -5
I've been up since 5.50am to watch this game best lack of sleep feeling I have ever had. Fantastic win could not be more proud of Ryan and the team. Valpo's future is looking exciting Let your pride shine all over the place. I could not be more pleased to watch Ryan play.
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Post by stlvufan on Jan 30, 2011 5:14:24 GMT -5
Well, that was something. I thought Zach Hahn (who according to the pbp guys saved all his bullets this season for us) was going to be the death of yet another Valpo attempt to beat Butler. He killed our intense rally at Hinkle, and I thought we were going to have to triple team him to keep him from scoring (then, for good measure, when late he stopped scoring, Chase Stigall stepped in for him quite nicely). Something must have changed in the 2nd half, but I'll be darned in I can pinpoint it. It was a half of runs, first 5-0 Valpo, then 9-0 Butler, then 11-0 Valpo. People have noted that BWood was less than 100%, which makes sense, of course. But I couldn't tell myself. Ever since last April, I have been daydreaming about some way for Valpo fans to show a minute or two of respect for the reigning national runners up when they came to the ARC this year. Color me daft, but I thought it'd be kinda cool. Yet sitting in the crowd as game time approached, it felt entirely appropriate that no such sentiment was in the air. I'm not sure why, but I found myself thinking it was very cool that there seemed to be no need or expectation of this (I also witnessed nothing more than good natured ribbing between the fan bases -- a young women approached our aisle with a wry grin on her face and pointed to the lettering on her T-shirt, something to the effect of 2010 Final Four and we should all show a little respect and allow her to reach her seat. I think she might have been friends with the Valpo fan who graciously upgraded my Dad and me to the lower level because he had 2 seats that would otherwise go unused). Somehow the fact that everything was business as usual speaks volumes to the respect that the Butler fanbase seems to have toward Valpo as full-fledged Horizon League members. I don't know if that makes sense or not. I would say that we run the risk of greatly overexaggerating the size of that sub-class of Butler fans that trashes the rest of the HL. A few idiots on a message board does not a majority make. Quite a few prayer 3s today, reminding me of that prayer that Michael Rogers threw in at the O'Rena before Christmas. Lots of bad turnovers in the first half. It seems like we took care of that in the 2nd half, but I haven't looked at the stats yet. By the way, Valpo also got away with a few bad calls. The Zach Hahn deflected air-ball that was awarded out of bounds to Valpo was an example. One of Nored's fouls looked questionable. I think this was a fairly well officiated game, especially compared to the Green Bay game. I must say, if you are going to argue against rushing the court, "Act like you've been there before" is the wrong argument to make in this case, because we *haven't* been there before, and Butler is still the team to beat in this conference, ranked or unranked. They are still the standard bearer. CSU, Valpo, and WSU may be on the cusp of unseating them, but that's still to be decided. As Mark Lazerus put it before the game, "I'm not going to bet on Valpo until they beat Butler at least once." There are other, better, arguments to make against rushing the court. "Act like you've been there before" isn't one of them. My drive home after the game was certainly a lot more fun this time than in year's past, that's for sure. ;D
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Post by humbleopinion on Jan 30, 2011 8:02:44 GMT -5
(I also witnessed nothing more than good natured ribbing between the fan bases -- a young women approached our aisle with a wry grin on her face and pointed to the lettering on her T-shirt, something to the effect of 2010 Final Four and we should all show a little respect and allow her to reach her seat. I think she might have been friends with the Valpo fan who graciously upgraded my Dad and me to the lower level because he had 2 seats that would otherwise go unused). She was the daughter (and VHS grad) of the VU fan that shared his seats with you.
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Post by agibson on Jan 30, 2011 8:24:24 GMT -5
My thing about court rushes has been the safety factor -- people have been seriously injured. For that matter, it can disrupt the handshake line, which is a beautiful part of the game. I wondered about that, also. It is sometimes brought up. But, Homer seemed very happy to have the students come out. (Unless I misunderstood the context...) So, I guess he's not _too_ worried about safety. Not as bad as a mosh pit, surely. I suppose it was dense in the pack - but the mob actually looked a bit small on the court.
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Post by agibson on Jan 30, 2011 8:28:31 GMT -5
I would say that we run the risk of greatly overexaggerating the size of that sub-class of Butler fans that trashes the rest of the HL. A few idiots on a message board does not a majority make. I've not counted noses, but it seems like it's more than a "few" people on the message board. I might venture to say that it's been the dominant opinion, coming in to this season. The message board wouldn't have to be representative of the fan base on this issue - but it might well be. Heck, if Valpo had a run like that through the HL (in one season, or in 5-10), I'm sure I'd also be thinking that the grass looks awfully green in the A10/Big East/MVC/etc.
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Post by agibson on Jan 30, 2011 8:35:53 GMT -5
From the Post Tribune piece www.post-trib.com/sports/3045766,vunotes-ptb-0130.article Late decision to play pays off for Wood, Valpo January 30, 2011 BY MARK LAZERUS Hilarious!
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Post by bbtds on Jan 30, 2011 9:27:19 GMT -5
Great win by Valpo and the whole team is to be congratulated for an outstanding team effort. I really think Valpo got over the biggest obstacle they have been dealing with for many many years in beating Butler. It certainly was worth the trip to VU for the game. By the way, Valpo also got away with a few bad calls. The Zach Hahn deflected air-ball that was awarded out of bounds to Valpo was an example. One of Nored's fouls looked questionable. I think this was a fairly well officiated game, especially compared to the Green Bay game. I kind of agree with you that overall the refereeing was fairly even. But when the refs didn't call the fifth foul on Matt Howard when he fouled Cory Johnson with about 30 seconds remaing in regulation and then called the fifth foul on Johnson when he accidently bumped Matt Howrd that was blantantly unfair. I've looked at that play where the refs didn't call the foul on Howard, live (saw it in person), on the TV broadcast and the video provided by the guy sitting behind the Valpo bench and each time I can't believe the refs missed that call in an obviously crucial situation and then could call the fifth foul on Johnson on a bump. That was an awful awful non-call and then call on Johnson. It could have cost Valpo the game. The fans would have come unglued on this board if Valpo would have lost this game on those two calls and you all know it. The refs were blantantly showing greater respect for Matt Howard then they were for Cory Johnson. Okay, I feel better now getting that off my chest. GREAT GREAT WIN!!!
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Post by milanmiracle on Jan 30, 2011 9:30:05 GMT -5
Let me clarify the "act like you've been there before" statement.
Has Valpo beaten Butler in recent memory? No. Could they have? Yes. Go look at the scores. My point is this...aim higher. Expect to beat Butler, expect to beat Washington (a bigger win than Butler in my opinion). Did Butler storm the court when they beat Stanford? No. Granted they just came of a national title appearance, but beating big teams was nothing new to them even before their miracle run. The players and the fans expect to win. If Valpo beat a ranked BCS opponent, fine storm the court. But if not, set your expectations higher...
NCAA tournament or bust!
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Post by milanmiracle on Jan 30, 2011 9:33:10 GMT -5
Court rush? Really? This is the fourth CONFERENCE loss for Butler. Honestly, I have mixed emotions about it. I do think it is silly, but at least there's some plausibility to it, given that we have been to Butler what Oakland was to us in the Mid-Con: the team that just can't beat them no matter how hard we try and how close we come. And I think that's part of why Oakland couldn't be Valpo, because it WAS such an accomplishment. Oh my gosh, VALPO. But let's not get confused here, and I am very, very excited for Valpo and this was a BIG deal, but to me it should just be one part of the story moving on to something much bigger.
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Post by bbtds on Jan 30, 2011 9:52:05 GMT -5
Even Butler fans agree that was a huge missed foul call on Howard's foul of Johnson. tmay wrote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Well that was a foul on Matt. Great no call!
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Post by vuweathernerd on Jan 30, 2011 10:29:16 GMT -5
buggs should've fouled out before he did too. he got away with a huge pushoff on hahn's back in regulation that would have been his fourth at the time. but i'll agree that the officiating was much more even than the green bay game.
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Post by agibson on Jan 30, 2011 10:31:08 GMT -5
Not sure if that's why, but the TV crew _did_ think he fouled out before he did. They were discussing him with four fouls for a long stretch of the game, announced his ejection, and then there was sort of stunned non-comment as he stayed in the game.
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Post by kl31ny on Jan 30, 2011 11:17:42 GMT -5
Let me state first and foremost that no one is ever going to be completely right on this "court rush" situation, so let's make sure we all don't get too bent on it. Being one of the many who did make it onto the floor, here's my take: The only people who have disagreed with that act, or even come close to thinking about it negatively, are people on this board. As fans, we never questioned it for a second. Homer and the team really seemed to enjoy it. The few writers/ARC employees I talked to seemed to take it as the right response, no questions asked. Does it still seem weird? Of course, it's not like the past few years when a Valpo win would have meant a court storming against a Top 25 basketball team where no one would think to criticize the students. Still, a lot of us were still in diapers or had no idea who VU or BU were when the Crusaders last defeated the Bulldogs. That win took out a lot of angst, and storming the court helped provide for some of that release. Plus, let's be honest, it's fun! In reference to the notes about safety and handshakes, nothing I saw live or in the numerous videos online seemed to disrupt that. The teams were given their space next to the scorer's table, and to be honest, that was probably the weakest mosh pit I've ever been in. I'd hard pressed to find someone hurt after that! Anyway, that's more than enough from me. Again, no one is completely right or wrong in this. Now, it's time for me to catch the live webcast of women's bowling. Later!
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